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Jamison,
You should read your citation. Which clearly states he denied at first, however he changed his mind later. Are you going to change history.(td)
Yeah, when we magically found a blank video tape in a house that was destroyed by missiles.
To believe that, you have to believe we have, in our military, people whos job it is to watch every video tape, from every destroyed building in Iraq. Also, that he had hair dye and was using it.
Posted : January 13, 2013 4:31 pm
Jamison,
What could we all be thinking?:S The tape you mentioned was found in Afghanistan.:-o
Posted : January 13, 2013 4:43 pm
Topic starter
I want to make it clear that I think Israel has a right to exist - I just don't agree with quite a few of their policies.
Posted : January 14, 2013 3:52 am
Topic starter
I decided to do some reading and determine what I am in relation to Jews and Israel. I found this at wikipedia: New antisemitism
There was one particular part that I would like to reflect upon myself:
"Definitions and arguments for and against the concept"
Irwin Cotler, Professor of Law at McGill University and a leading scholar of human rights, has identified nine sets of what he considered to be "new anti-Semitism":
Genocidal antisemitism - The public calls for the destruction of Israel and the Jewish people. Israel has a right to exist, so I am not in this group.
Political antisemitism - The denial of the Jewish people's right to self-determination; The de-legitimization of Israel as a state; The attributions to Israel of all the world's evils. I'm fine with Israel being a state, and no, Israel is very far from being the source of evil in the world.
Ideological antisemitism - The comparison between Zionism and Racism to "Nazify" Israel. This I am.
Theological antisemitism - The convergence of Islamic antisemitism and Christian "replacement" theology, drawing on classical hatred of Jews. I couldn't give a (censored) about any religion.
Cultural antisemitism - The mixture of attitudes, sentiments, and discourse of "fashionable" salon intellectuals. Eh, what does this mean?
Economic antisemitism - BDS movements and extraterritorial application of restrictive covenants against countries trading with Israel. We give you too much money as it is. I don't see anyone restricting trade with Israel, besides your Arab neighbors. Can someone correct me if I'm wrong?
Holocaust denial. This is a big one with me. When I was a child, one of my father's girlfriends was a Jewish girl named Susan. She was always very kind to me. Her mother was in Auschwitz, and my father had her show me her tattoo. I didn't know what it was when she showed me, but I do now. Her attitude was very closed and a kind of aggressive defensiveness. I have a feeling Susan caught flack for my father being "goyim".
Racist terrorism against Jews. Never.
Denial to Israel of equality before the law in the international arena - The differential and discriminatory treatment for Israel in the international arena. Last I checked Israel has a good standing with the UN.
I like how any objection to Israel is an pretty much automatic "anti-semite" in many people's eyes.
More quotes from the article:
"A new phenomenon, but not antisemitism"
"(Brian Klug) argues that it is an unhelpful concept, because it devalues the term "antisemitism," leading to widespread cynicism about the use of it. People of goodwill who support the Palestinians resent being falsely accused of antisemitism."
"He argues that, although it is true that the new antisemitism incorporates the idea that antisemitism is hostility to Jews as Jews, the source of the hostility has changed; therefore, to continue using the same expression for it — antisemitism — causes confusion. Today's hostility to Jews as Jews is based on the Arab-Israeli conflict, not on ancient European fantasies."
"(Steven Zipperstein) argues that Jews have a tendency to see the State of Israel as a victim because they were very recently themselves "the quintessential victims."
"Norman Finkelstein argues that organizations such as the Anti-Defamation League have brought forward charges of new antisemitism at various intervals since the 1970s, "not to fight antisemitism but rather to exploit the historical suffering of Jews in order to immunize Israel against criticism"
"He writes that what is called the new antisemitism consists of three components: (i) "exaggeration and fabrication"; (ii) "mislabeling legitimate criticism of Israeli policy"; and (iii) "the unjustified yet predictable spillover from criticism of Israel to Jews generally."[31] He argues that Israel's apologists have denied a causal relationship between Israeli policies and hostility toward Jews, since "if Israeli policies, and widespread Jewish support for them, evoke hostility toward Jews, it means that Israel and its Jewish supporters might themselves be causing anti-Semitism; and it might be doing so because Israel and its Jewish supporters are in the wrong".
"Antony Lerman argues that this redefinition has had unfortunate repercussions. He writes that serious scholarly research into contemporary antisemitism has become "virtually non-existent", and that the subject is now most frequently studied and analyzed by "people lacking any serious expertise in the subject, whose principal aim is to excoriate Jewish critics of Israel and to promote the "anti-Zionism = anti-Semitism" equation. Lerman concludes that this redefinition has ultimately served to stifle legitimate discussion, and that it cannot create a basis on which to fight antisemitism."
*shrug* that is how I look at this problem.
Posted : January 15, 2013 11:35 am
My nonsupport of Israel is 100% non religious based.
Posted : January 15, 2013 11:52 am
Playing devils advocate...
What about self determination in Northern Ireland? Of course in this analogy, the Catholic's in Belfast could be thought of as the equivalent of the Palestinians in the West Bank, and the Israelis would be the English!
Just an interesting perspective to encourage some outside of the box thinking.
(And another prime example of why I have a low opinion of 'organized' religious factions).
Posted : January 15, 2013 2:08 pm
We need better titled threads. Accurately written out, so you know what thread is what.
Posted : January 15, 2013 3:10 pm
Topic starter
North Ireland should have its own government. With the unemployment rate there, they could only do better than where they are now. That country has been strangled.
// grandmothers last name was Neil, doesn't get much more Irish than that.
Just in case anyone is curious I am from greater to lesser French/Irish/Mohawk/Dutch
Posted : January 15, 2013 3:11 pm
We need better titled threads. Accurately written out, so you know what thread is what.
Where would the fun be in that? 😎
OK so we, as a nation, are spending too much money interfering with other counties politics and religious/resource based conflicts, which frequently come back to bite us, while ignoring conflicts in other areas because they don't involve assets we might be interested in, or pose a perceived security threat. That about sums it up I think.
(NoOne - sorry to hear about your part french ancestry, maybe in the future medical science can do something about that 8-)).
Posted : January 15, 2013 3:41 pm
Topic starter
OK so we, as a nation, are spending too much money interfering with other counties politics and religious/resource based conflicts, which frequently come back to bite us, while ignoring conflicts in other areas because they don't involve assets we might be interested in, or pose a perceived security threat. That about sums it up I think.
Yes, I see we can agree on this.
(NoOne - sorry to hear about your part french ancestry, maybe in the future medical science can do something about that 8-)).
Hahahaha!!! It actually helped me while living on STT. With my Indian blood I tan about as dark as a Frenchi on the island, and I am the tall/thin/hazel eyed type of French, so I gained a little respect just for my looks.
Posted : January 15, 2013 3:48 pm
OK so we, as a nation, are spending too much money interfering with other counties politics and religious/resource based conflicts, which frequently come back to bite us, while ignoring conflicts in other areas because they don't involve assets we might be interested in, or pose a perceived security threat. That about sums it up I think.
Yes, I see we can agree on this.
I'm sure we can agree on a lot of things.
It's like we don't even learn from our own history of screwing in other people's back yards. We continue using money, political power, threats, and military action to influence foreign potentates. Yet this strategy ends up backfiring over the course of time, while causing more political strife within our own borders. Unfortunately my initial hope for the Obama administration's platform of change, when first elected, seem to have deteriorated due to the immediate economic conditions encountered and then death by political gridlock. Passing health care reform was a minor miracle. In some way's I think it is very easy, and tempting, when living on-island to unplug from the geo-political conflicts and focus on a more macro-island-level of happenings.
BTW. My negative assertions regarding your French ancestry are purely based on the bad taste left in my mouth from the Rainbow Warrior bombing in '85.
Posted : January 16, 2013 3:01 pm
Topic starter
BTW. My negative assertions regarding your French ancestry are purely based on the bad taste left in my mouth from the Rainbow Warrior bombing in '85.
I know you were kidding around, np.
Posted : January 17, 2013 1:51 am
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