Serendipity

Since we were talking about immigration, do you think that any child born in the US should be considered a citizen? Or should citizenship be limited only to the children of parents who are here legally? Or only the children of US Citizens? What do other countries do?

Since OldTart is our resident British expert, how does the UK deal with the children born to illegal immigrants?

My first search indicates that children born in the UK are only considered citizens if at least one of the parents is a UK citizen. Is this correct?

Thanks Rotor!

I cant comment on the children topic because I simply dont know anything about it. Unlike other posters on this forum I will not make claims that I cannot back up with facts and then run and hide when called out on them.

But on the subject of immigration, I do recall a situation I think back around the 2008 elections when immigration was a hot topic. It had something to do with the Mexican govt proposing to seal the border with Guatemala because they were having such problems with people illegaly coming to Mexico. At the same time the Mexican govt was fighting very hard to keep the US from sealing the border to Mexico.

You've probably all read Aesop's Fable about the Ant and the Grasshopper.
http://www.longlongtimeago.com/llta_fables_antgrasshopper.html

Well here is the new updated version from the UK.

REST OF THE WORLD VERSION:

The squirrel works hard in the withering heat all summer long, building and improving his house and laying up supplies for the winter.

The grasshopper thinks he's a fool, and laughs and dances and plays the summer away. Come winter, the squirrel is warm and well fed, the shivering grasshopper has no food or shelter, so he dies out in the cold.

THE END

THE U.K. VERSION:

The squirrel works hard in the withering heat all summer long, building his house and laying up supplies for the winter.

The grasshopper thinks he's a fool, and laughs and dances and plays the summer away.

Come winter, the squirrel is warm and well fed, but a social worker finds the shivering grasshopper, calls a press conference and demands to know why the squirrel should be allowed to be warm and well fed while others less fortunate, like the grasshopper, are cold and starving.

The BBC shows up to provide live coverage of the shivering grasshopper; with cuts to a video of the squirrel in his comfortable warm home with a table heavily laden with food.

The British press inform people that they should be ashamed that in a country of such wealth, this poor grasshopper is allowed to suffer so, while others have plenty.

The Labour Party, Greenpeace, Animal Rights and The newly created Grasshopper Action Group demonstrate in front of the squirrel's house. The BBC, interrupting a cultural festival special from Notting Hill with breaking news, broadcasts a multi-cultural choir singing 'We shall overcome'.

Some champagne socialist rants in an interview that the squirrel got rich off the backs of grasshoppers, and calls for an immediate tax hike on the squirrel to make him pay his 'fair share'

In response to pressure from the media, the Government drafts the "Economic Equity and Grasshopper anti Discrimination Act", retroactive to the beginning of the summer.

The squirrel's taxes are reassessed.

He is taken to court and fined for failing to hire grasshoppers as builders for the work he was doing on his home and an additional fine for contempt when he told the court the grasshopper did not want to work.

The grasshopper is provided with free housing, financial aid to furnish it and an account with a local taxi firm to ensure he can be socially mobile. The squirrel's food is seized and re distributed to the more needy members of society, in this case the grasshopper.

Without enough money to buy more food, to pay the fine and his newly imposed retroactive taxes, the squirrel has to downsize and start building a new home.

The local authority takes over his old home and utilizes it as a temporary home for asylum seeking cats who had hijacked a plane to get to Britain as they had to share their country of origin with mice. On arrival they tried to blow up the airport because of Britain 's apparent love of dogs.

The cats are arrested for the international offence of hijacking and attempted bombing but are immediately released because the police fed them pilchards instead of salmon whilst in custody. Initial moves to return them to their own country were abandoned, because it was feared they would be killed by the mice.

The cats devise and start a scam to obtain money from people's credit cards.

A "hard-hitting" BBC documentary special shows the grasshopper finishing up the last of the squirrel's food, though spring is still weeks away, while the house he is in crumbles around him because he hasn't bothered to maintain it. He is shown to be taking drugs. Inadequate government funding is blamed for the grasshoppers' drug 'illness'.

The cats seek recompense in the British courts for their treatment since arrival in the UK.

The grasshopper gets arrested for stabbing an old dog during a burglary to get money for his drugs habit. He is imprisoned but released immediately because he has been in custody for a few weeks. He is placed in the care of the probation service to monitor and supervise him.. Within a few weeks he has killed a guinea pig in a botched robbery.

A commission of enquiry into the whole affair is set up. It eventually costs ten million pounds and states the obvious.

Additional money is put into funding a drug rehabilitation scheme for grasshoppers and legal aid for lawyers representing asylum seekers is increased.

The government praises the asylum-seeking cats for enriching Britain's multicultural diversity, but the nation's dogs are criticized for failing to befriend the cats.

The grasshopper dies of a drug overdose. The usual sections of the press blame it on the obvious failure of government to address the root causes of despair arising from social inequity and his traumatic experience of prison. They call for a government minister to resign.

The cats are paid a million pounds each because their rights were infringed when the government failed to inform them that there were mice in the UK.

The squirrel, the dogs and the victims of the hijacking, the bombing, the burglaries and robberies have to pay an additional percentage on their credit cards to cover losses. Their taxes are increased to pay for law and order, and they are told that they will have to work beyond 65 because of a shortfall in government funds.

THE END

President Obama liked this fable so much better than the original that he decided to make it the American Dream!

My first search indicates that children born in the UK are only considered citizens if at least one of the parents is a UK citizen. Is this correct?

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/britishcitizenship/othernationality/Britishcitizenship/borninukorqualifyingterritory/

If you are born in the US you are a US citizen, unless your parents choose others I believe. You would probably prefer the Cayman Islands take. If you're not Caymanian and your child is born there, the child is a citizen of where you are from. Further on from that, if a man and a woman get work permits to work there as individuals meet, and have a child, they now have to reapply for work permits since they have a dependant. Further on again, if a Caymanian woman moves to Antigua and has a child then comes home, it's okay. When that child turns 18, they have to apply for a work permit as they are not a citizen of Cayman, but Antigua!! Imagine that!

My first search indicates that children born in the UK are only considered citizens if at least one of the parents is a UK citizen. Is this correct?

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/britishcitizenship/othernationality/Britishcitizenship/borninukorqualifyingterritory/

Thanks, It sounds a little stricter than the US. Children of parents who are illegally in the country are not considered citizens. I suspect that the rules of the US go back to the days when we had a vast territory which need to be settled. After all we couldn't just let those "Indians" have it to themselves.

As with our whole planet, as the population increases controls will be needed to limit over-population. After all, humans are just a rash on Gaia's skin.

Oh No! First Twinkies and now a "War on Nutella".

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2012/11/14/french-senate-passes-nutella-tax-in-hope-cutting-down-obesity/?intcmp=obinsite

This is an example of the creeping government involvement in our lives. The French are now raising the taxes on certain food products under the guise of fighting obesity. The argument is since they have national health care, obesity costs everyone more money so they need a tax on "sweets" in order to fund the national health care system.

First cigarettes, now candy. What is the next big tax target to protect us from ourselves? I wonder how many new government employees this will allow them to hire?

i would imagine sugary sodas if they are not already taxed

I think the US immigration issue is an absolute joke.

It's the only country you can fly into, get off the plane, get a job, rent a house, get a drivers license and live free.

You don't even need to learn a language.

It's the only place in the world you can do that so easily.

Our entire system is designed to encourage people to do that. I laugh every time I hear people talking about building that ridiculous wall. I know a ton of Mexicans back home around Philly and NY. They all just buy plane tickets and usually go to see family once a year or so.

It's a joke.

Our ancestors all came to what is now the USA from somewhere else.

Our ancestors all came to what is now the USA from somewhere else.

Yes. We're all African-Americans. Our ancestors just left the mother continent at different times.

Maybe it was the mother ship.

New tourism opportunity.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/12/02/chinese-maternity-hotel-sparks-outrage-in-california-suburb/

Abbott and Costello explain [the Government] Accounting System...
Some of you will remember "who's on first".

COSTELLO: I want to talk about the unemployment rate in America.

ABBOTT: Good Subject. Terrible Times. It's 9%.

COSTELLO: That many people are out of work?

ABBOTT: No, that's 16%.

COSTELLO: You just said 9%.

ABBOTT: 9% Unemployed.

COSTELLO: Right 9% out of work.

ABBOTT: No, that's 16%.

COSTELLO: Okay, so it's 16% unemployed.

ABBOTT: No, that's 9%...

COSTELLO: WAIT A MINUTE. Is it 9% or 16%?

ABBOTT: 9% are unemployed. 16% are out of work.

COSTELLO: IF you are out of work you are unemployed.

ABBOTT: No, you can't count the "Out of Work" as the unemployed. You have to look for work to be unemployed.

COSTELLO: BUT THEY ARE OUT OF WORK!!!

ABBOTT: No, you miss my point.

COSTELLO: What point?

ABBOTT: Someone who doesn't look for work, can't be counted with those who look for work. It wouldn't be fair.

COSTELLO: To whom?

ABBOTT: The unemployed.

COSTELLO: But they are ALL out of work.

ABBOTT: No, the unemployed are actively looking for work. Those who are out of work stopped looking. They gave up. And, if you give up, you are no longer in the ranks of the unemployed.

COSTELLO: So if you're off the unemployment rolls, that would count as less unemployment?

ABBOTT: Unemployment would go down. Absolutely!

COSTELLO: The unemployment just goes down because you don't look for work?

ABBOTT: Absolutely it goes down. That's how you get to 9%. Otherwise it would be 16%. You don't want to read about 16% unemployment, do ya?

COSTELLO: That would be frightening.

ABBOTT: Absolutely.

COSTELLO: Wait, I got a question for you. That means there are two ways to bring down the unemployment number?

ABBOTT: Two ways is correct.

COSTELLO: Unemployment can go down if someone gets a job?

ABBOTT: Correct.

COSTELLO: And unemployment can also go down if you stop looking for a job?

ABBOTT: Bingo.

COSTELLO: So there are two ways to bring unemployment down, and the easier of the two is to just stop looking for work.

ABBOTT: Now you're thinking like an economist.

COSTELLO: I don't even know what the hell I just said!

ABBOTT: Now you're thinking like a politician.

This explains why raising government assistance to the point where fewer people are seeking jobs lowers the unemployment numbers.

Jobless Rate Edges Down to Its Lowest Level in 4 Years

“Over the past year, unemployment has fallen a full percentage point and is now down 2.3 percentage points from its high in 2009.”

Jobless Rate Edges Down to Its Lowest Level in 4 Years

“Over the past year, unemployment has fallen a full percentage point and is now down 2.3 percentage points from its high in 2009.”

Yes, more and more people have simply stopped looking for work.

Jobless Rate Edges Down to Its Lowest Level in 4 Years

“Over the past year, unemployment has fallen a full percentage point and is now down 2.3 percentage points from its high in 2009.”

Yes, more and more people have simply stopped looking for work.

Do you have a reference for that please?

Jobless Rate Edges Down to Its Lowest Level in 4 Years

“Over the past year, unemployment has fallen a full percentage point and is now down 2.3 percentage points from its high in 2009.”

Yes, more and more people have simply stopped looking for work.

Do you have a reference for that please?

"Looking at our current labor market, the official unemployment rate was at a high of 10 percent in October 2009, and has fallen to 8.1 percent. Some politicians say this is evidence that their policies are bringing back jobs. But, much of the decline in the unemployment rate is due to people giving up looking for work. If we were to add back the people who have stopped looking for work since October 2009, the unemployment rate would be more than 11 percent. The official unemployment rate has fallen largely because we've stopped counting large numbers of jobless people."
http://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/economic-intelligence/2012/05/29/3-lies-about-jobs-and-the-unemployment-rate

http://www.npr.org/2012/09/14/161095920/discouraged-in-hunt-for-a-job-many-stop-looking

"The August jobs report sent chills through Wall Street and Washington because of one eye-popping number: 368,000 Americans gave up looking for work. That makes 7 million people not counted as part of the labor force who want a job."
http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politics/2012/0908/Why-have-millions-of-Americans-given-up-looking-for-work

http://www.businessinsider.com/why-the-unemployment-rate-has-fallen-in-2012-2012-10

Interesting "facts" from an astronomer in Kuwait. BTW, neither of these statements is based on scientific evidence.

"According to Al-Ojeiri he tried from early age to conduct research on the end of the world but he realized only God knows about the time, and it is not an issue that can be calculated by humans."

"He mentioned that scientists have done researches on other planets and discovered in those planets are many creatures different from those on earth — in terms of size and form, stressing that Jupiter for example is 1,200 times bigger than Earth, so do the creatures living on it."
http://www.arabtimesonline.com/NewsDetails/tabid/96/smid/414/ArticleID/191448/reftab/37/Default.aspx

The hilarious thing is that this astronomer is called a roll model to be followed by other scientists. I guess based on his discovery of giant creatures on Jupiter.
http://www.uob.edu.bh/english/pages.aspx?module=news&id=888&SID=5

The Facts about Mass Shootings
http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/335739/facts-about-mass-shootings-john-fund

Do you think more mass shootings occur in schools or churches?

Nice article Rotor, i actually read the whole thing instead of my usual skimming through.

I think we should have a police officer in every school, personally.