POTUS Overreach on Immigation

I'm not going to let his negative term affect me. I'm not in it for points. Jesus lived a life of social justice (whether you believe in his divinity is up to you) & if being in favor of social justice it's somehow now a negative the nihlists have won

our model of 100% employment is (ridiculous) un attainable at that level also.

Since the system is designed with massive levels of poverty and a steep pyramidal structure to wealth built in, immigration laws are mandatory to keep the status quo.

Are you arguing that the if supply of labor becomes near infinite the costs of labor will drop or something else?

I'd say more that if the supply of ENERGY becomes near infinite the cost and need of labor (with current technology) will drop to near nothing.

energy is the real currency obfuscated by it's surrogate, "money", which we must all work for to obtain (well the majority of us).

Don't worry xenophobes.. it is already legal and accepted that cops can kill black kids so I'm sure in the near future they will train there weapons on these new immigrants in little Mexico and life will be restored to how it was in Norman Rockwell paintings

I don't recall Jesus taking others opinions in the worst possible light and assigning motives, but we may have went to different churches

I don't recall Jesus casting out the less fortunate from his flock either or saying get out of Nazereth to someone from Canaan... and don't even begin to tell me there isn't a portion of society that agrees with my statement. Read some of the hate/vitriol that comes from message boards.

I don't want to address the immigration issue because both sides have valid points.

But regarding the POTUS OVERREACH issue? Is anyone saying that he did anything immigration that 5 previous Republican presidents didn't do by executive order?

How does Mexico handle immigration?

– The Mexican government will bar foreigners if they upset “the equilibrium of the national demographics.” How’s that for racial and ethnic profiling?

– If outsiders do not enhance the country’s “economic or national interests” or are “not found to be physically or mentally healthy,” they are not welcome. Neither are those who show “contempt against national sovereignty or security.” They must not be economic burdens on society and must have clean criminal histories. Those seeking to obtain Mexican citizenship must show a birth certificate, provide a bank statement proving economic independence, pass an exam and prove they can provide their own health care.

– Illegal entry into the country is equivalent to a felony punishable by two years’ imprisonment. Document fraud is subject to fine and imprisonment; so is alien marriage fraud. Evading deportation is a serious crime; illegal re-entry after deportation is punishable by ten years’ imprisonment. Foreigners may be kicked out of the country without due process and the endless bites at the litigation apple that illegal aliens are afforded in our country (see, for example, President Obama’s illegal alien aunt — a fugitive from deportation for eight years who is awaiting a second decision on her previously rejected asylum claim).

– Law enforcement officials at all levels — by national mandate — must cooperate to enforce immigration laws, including illegal alien arrests and deportations. The Mexican military is also required to assist in immigration enforcement operations. Native-born Mexicans are empowered to make citizens’ arrests of illegal aliens and turn them in to authorities.

– Ready to show your papers? Mexico’s National Catalog of Foreigners tracks all outside tourists and foreign nationals. A National Population Registry tracks and verifies the identity of every member of the population, who must carry a citizens’ identity card. Visitors who do not possess proper documents and identification are subject to arrest as illegal aliens.

All of these provisions are enshrined in Mexico’s Ley General de Población (General Law of the Population) and were spotlighted in a 2006 research paper published by the Washington, D.C.-based Center for Security Policy. There’s been no public clamor for “comprehensive immigration reform” in Mexico, however, because pro-illegal alien speech by outsiders is prohibited.

So we should strive to be more like Mexico? This undermines the whole American Excellence idea. We are a beacon of freedom.. remember

So we should strive to be more like Mexico? This undermines the whole American Excellence idea. We are a beacon of freedom.. remember

So you think that we should eliminate immigration controls altogether?
We could certainly save federal funds by eliminating ICE.

So we should strive to be more like Mexico? This undermines the whole American Excellence idea. We are a beacon of freedom.. remember

So you think that we should eliminate immigration controls altogether?
We could certainly save federal funds by eliminating ICE.

ICE budget for 2014 was about 5.5 billion. So not a huge savings (yes I know 5.5 billion is a lot of money). I do think we need immigration controls. I never advocated open borders. I could see eliminating ICE and having military take over since we all know the military is a sacred cow part of the budget. Let's eliminate the DEA while we are at it too.

We are now living in Louisville, Kentucky. While our unemployment rate is higher than the national average, it is still the lowest it's been in many years. Employers are BEGGING for workers. Jobs go unfilled every day, jobs which range from seasonal to full time, minimum wage to $12 - $15 dollars an hour. Jobs with benefits. Jobs that only require you to be drug free and to come to work (and work) every day. Under these conditions we are never going to stop citizens of other countries from coming here to work. Many (most) would prefer to do so legally. This country has to figure out a way to make that happen.

My grandfather came to Ellis Island as a small boy with his mom and sisters. His father had come previously to find work. Legal or illegal meant nothing in 1906. They just arrived. No "papers", carrying everything they owned. In my great-grandfather's case, he had to show that he could earn a living and was not a criminal. The rest of the family were sponsored by him. Period.

We are not going to deport millions of people, some of whom have been here for decades, so we better figure it out.

We are now living in Louisville, Kentucky. While our unemployment rate is higher than the national average, it is still the lowest it's been in many years. Employers are BEGGING for workers. Jobs go unfilled every day, jobs which range from seasonal to full time, minimum wage to $12 - $15 dollars an hour. Jobs with benefits. Jobs that only require you to be drug free and to come to work (and work) every day. Under these conditions we are never going to stop citizens of other countries from coming here to work. Many (most) would prefer to do so legally. This country has to figure out a way to make that happen.

Please explain. If your unemployment rate is higher than the national average then why do jobs which pay higher than minimum wage and with benefits go unfilled? Why don't unemployed Americans take these jobs?

We could stop illegal immigration if we enforced our laws. That is the real problem. It is illegal for employers to hire people without proper documentation. We should prosecute these employers. We should also remove incentives for Americans NOT to work. We need to make working more attractive and make collecting unemployment assistance less attractive.

Rotor I agree. That inventive would be a living wage. So letting taxpayers supplement income of workers at multi billion dollar corporations

Please define a "living wage". Doesn't it depend on how you live?

I worked minimum wage jobs for years. I had 3 roommates and the four of us shared a two bedroom apartment. Two per room, just like the dorm at college.

We worked hard and moved up the career ladder. Soon I was able to share a two bedroom apartment with one other roommate.

I didn't try to marry, have children and raise a family on a minimum wage job. It is called personal responsibility. Something many people today want to excuse.

[Rotor, I'm not sure why these jobs go wanting. I am a member of a local, neighborhood Facebook group. Often, local employers will advertise for jobs, only to get replies like - oh, I can't work second shift, weekends, the job is too far away, it's outside (UPS) I don't want to work through a temp service (many of the warehouse jobs hire via temp agencies and then hire full time from the temp employees). Often people almost act like they should be able to write their own schedule, pay, and work rules. Some, unfortunately are afraid of losing government benefits - unemployment included.

Maybe I'm getting old, but I worked since I was 16. When I wasn't making enough, I asked for overtime or I worked a second job. I seriously believe people just don't want to work hard. Farmers here also have trouble getting crops picked. We have one very large u-pick operation in the area, very successful, who switched from regular farming for this reason. And still, when we visit to pick strawberries or get our Halloween pumpkin, most of his present workers seem to be Hispanic and probably of questionable status.

Don't know what the answer is, but I despair of this congress or this president making any real progress.

As far as punishing employers, will we put farmers and other small businesses out of business or will we at least examine all our options?

Maybe I'm getting old, but I worked since I was 16. When I wasn't making enough, I asked for overtime or I worked a second job. I seriously believe people just don't want to work hard. Farmers here also have trouble getting crops picked. We have one very large u-pick operation in the area, very successful, who switched from regular farming for this reason. And still, when we visit to pick strawberries or get our Halloween pumpkin, most of his present workers seem to be Hispanic and probably of questionable status.

Don't know what the answer is, but I despair of this congress or this president making any real progress.

As far as punishing employers, will we put farmers and other small businesses out of business or will we at least examine all our options?

I think that you hit the nail on the head. American workers consider themselves above jobs which require hard work. The entitlement packages available today discourage working. It will only get worse by allowing 5 million illegal aliens to skip to the front of the line.

The way to fix the problem is to match the unemployed with jobs, not welfare. Have everyone who is unemployed line up in front of the unemployment office. The farmers could come by and pick from the available workers. Anyone who refuses to take a job gets no welfare.

The reason that this problem will not be solved by congress/president is that we have fundamental differences about how to address the problem. There is no consensus of opinion on this issue.

Maybe I'm getting old, but I worked since I was 16. When I wasn't making enough, I asked for overtime or I worked a second job. I seriously believe people just don't want to work hard. Farmers here also have trouble getting crops picked. We have one very large u-pick operation in the area, very successful, who switched from regular farming for this reason. And still, when we visit to pick strawberries or get our Halloween pumpkin, most of his present workers seem to be Hispanic and probably of questionable status.

Don't know what the answer is, but I despair of this congress or this president making any real progress.

As far as punishing employers, will we put farmers and other small businesses out of business or will we at least examine all our options?

I think that you hit the nail on the head. American workers consider themselves above jobs which require hard work. The entitlement packages available today discourage working. It will only get worse by allowing 5 million illegal aliens to skip to the front of the line.

The way to fix the problem is to match the unemployed with jobs, not welfare. Have everyone who is unemployed line up in front of the unemployment office. The farmers could come by and pick from the available workers. Anyone who refuses to take a job gets no welfare.

The reason that this problem will not be solved by congress/president is that we have fundamental differences about how to address the problem. There is no consensus of opinion on this issue.

Let me be clear. I have always worked. I have always worked a physically demanding job. That being said what your level of personal responsibility is and mine is not the same for everyone. The problem isn't "entitlements" in my eyes the problem is the government working in lock step with industry to make sure wages are down. Greed world in two directions

Have any of you Republicans ever actually spent time around these people?

10 or 12 years ago I lived in the Little Mexico part of Chicago for a couple years, and naturally a majority of people I knew were Mexican. I wasn't able to go home for holidays so they'd invite me in for dinner and in a lot of their houses there was a group of illegal relatives in the basement that never came upstairs. They'd go to work in their crap jobs with crap pay and then go right back to the basements in their relatives' houses without a complaint because it was so much better than life back home. A lot of them just came for work, but a huge chunk had unbelievable stories about the nightmare they used to call home.

This is a huge problem, and I'm glad we've finally decided to do something. And the Republican answer is... Got Mine, Screw You? "Sorry you were born on the wrong side of a line we drew in the desert (on your land, sorry for that too) but you're going to have to fill out this application and then go back to your hellhole for a few years while it winds through our bullshit bureaucracy."

"But we just want them to do it the right way!" Idiotic statement of the year, right here, folks. What exactly do you mean by "the right way?" Do you mean they should come here with guns, try to kill us all off, and round the survivors up in little reservations while they steal our land? I'm glad all they want to do is wash dishes and do manual labor, myself.

Am I the only one somewhat unnerved by how much Republicans care about issues like this and welfare? Of all the problems we have today, one of your primary concerns is who's working in the kitchen at the restaurant down the street? Why, I wonder? Would Republicans be yelling to deport illegal immigrants if they were affluent Canadians making political donations?

Let me be clear. I have always worked. I have always worked a physically demanding job. That being said what your level of personal responsibility is and mine is not the same for everyone. The problem isn't "entitlements" in my eyes the problem is the government working in lock step with industry to make sure wages are down. Greed world in two directions

See. We have totally different views of the problem.

How is government working with industry to keep wages down? Except for the artificial minimum wage. Greed has always been the motivator. Show me a successful socialist country.

As more people demand an increased minimum wage the problem will only get worse. McDonalds is already talking about replacing half of their counter people with touchscreens and smartphones. This will allow customers the ability to place their own orders and eliminating tens if not hundreds of thousands of minimum wage jobs.

Head in the clouds people think that businesses will simply raise everyone's wages and absorb the loss. Not going to happen. Businesses will eliminate workers through automation and increase their profits.

More people not working. A few extra skilled employees will be hired to maintain the automation but the unskilled workers get dropped. Whose fault is this?

trainwreck82

You point out our differences. Liberals make decisions based on emotions and feelings. Conservatives use logic and reason.

I never said that Hispanics are bad people, only that they have no right to cross our borders illegally and expect our laws to be waived for them.

Rotor,

Facts and common sense will never win on this issue. Just as it is the white people that are to blame for the looting and burning of Ferguson. JMHO

trainwreck82

You point out our differences. Liberals make decisions based on emotions and feelings. Conservatives use logic and reason.

I never said that Hispanics are bad people, only that they have no right to cross our borders illegally and expect our laws to be waived for them.

Disingenuous at best, Rotor. Conservatives use flawed logic and reason to arrive at positions they truly arrived at based on their emotions and feelings (and in this case, very questionable feelings).

It seems to me like being a decent person means helping people that are far less fortunate than you and it's our obligation to do it, especially when the only argument for not doing it is an arbitrary law that we can simply change, or at least make it a hell of a lot faster process. But hey, to each their own. We both know this isn't an issue that anybody is going to change their minds on.

Liberals talk about the common good in terms of helping those less fortunate than themselves. That is a feel good attitude that overlooks the fact that some people refuse to take care of themselves.

When you talk about the "common good", is it more important that we feed and cloth every individual or that we insure the survival of the human species? What should our priorities be?

I think that less money should be spent on the military and on social welfare programs. More money should be spent on science R&D and on space exploration. If we have another "extinction event", and we have had many over the history of the earth. They range from meteor impacts to mega volcano eruptions to solar events. They WILL happen again. Will it have been more important for us to have fed every person on our planet or that we established a viable colony on another planet?

I believe in Charity, voluntary charity. If your cause is so righteous then why do people need to be forced to support it? Why not make it voluntary?

Rotor, whatever you or I think, or even what is legal or not - the fact is that we have a slew of people in the country who are not supposed to be here. Getting them out is not a realistic goal, either economically or politically. So we have to figure out a plan B.

Rotor, whatever you or I think, or even what is legal or not - the fact is that we have a slew of people in the country who are not supposed to be here. Getting them out is not a realistic goal, either economically or politically. So we have to figure out a plan B.

I think that first we need to secure our borders and put a system in place which prevents further illegal immigration. Otherwise an amnesty program simply invites more illegal immigration. Reagan gave amnesty but never solved the problem of illegal immigration, this led to what we have now.

We need to first solve the problem of illegal immigration then worry about amnesty for those already here.

"Arizona State Rep. Steve Montenegro (Legal immigrant from El Salvador):
If you're an immigrant that came to this country legally, you went through the rigorous process of the immigration system, this is a slap in the face to you. If you are an immigrant or someone trying to immigrate to this country, somebody that's been waiting for 10 years, their case is on somebody's desk waiting to get the permission, legal permission to do it, this is a slap in the face to them as well because you just told them you should have broken the law and you would have been OK being here, but no, since you followed the law."

I agree with the Libertarian point of view.