Personal Responsibility vs Societal Responsibility

Liberal vs Conservative look at society.

"If you ever wondered what side of the fence you sit on, this is a great test!

So true."

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/liberals-vs-conservatives-2012#ixzz2mAqFu0c2

If a liberal doesn't approve of your lifestyle, he says "hey, it's your life do as you like". If a conservative doesn't like your lifestyle, he tries to have you marginalized.

😉

I wrote out this long thing about how stereotypes don't help anyone. But that's the liberal in me, ha ha!

I'm a liberal and I don't believe guns should be outlawed, I don't care what anyone believes or eats as long as they don't force it on me, and I don't think we've found the solution yet for healthcare. So I guess I don't fit that list.

Whoops!

Well Julie, I was going to answer before everything disappeared.

I put up the second post as a joke. You didn't comment on the real question in the first post.

I believe in maximizing personal freedom. Every time the government gets involved it does so by limiting our freedom. While some rules are necessary I believe there should be as few as possible.

I agree with a mixture of the opinions expressed by the article that I posted and the ones that you mentioned EXCEPT.....

Your comment about, "If a conservative wanted a second boat he would make his employees work on Thanksgiving. A liberal would give his employees Thanksgiving off and give them a turkey." or something close to that.

No one can "make" their employees work against their will. All large employers have employment agreements, these usually spell out how holidays are handled. Many, many, many occupations require people to work on holidays. An employee gets to see this agreement before they become an employee. If they don't agree with the requirements of the job then they are free to look for employment elsewhere. Even if they agree they can always change their mind and quit. No one will force them to work.

The profit (second boat, haha) earned by the owner/shareholders has nothing to do with what individual employees are paid or their work schedule. Presumably they agreed to the work schedule as part of the employment agreement. They presumably agreed to their wages as well. Wages are usually determined by the job market. What do other employees in the job market who can do the same job earn? This usually means that the more skills you have or the more critical your job function is the more you are paid. The employment agreement only offered a job, it did not confer part ownership of the company.

Whose responsibility is it to make sure that people have skills? Are individuals responsible for acquiring employable skills or is society responsible for ensuring that they acquire those skills? Should the government be able to evaluate a person, decide what job they would best fit, train them for that job and then assign them to a job? Maybe then society could take responsibility for unemployment.

I just believe we should wage war against poor education, like we do brown people, so that we as a people, will stop being so ignorant, that we continue to reelect other people who will continue to herd us into the cattle lines of failure. There should be no higher goal in the world, because every single person will benefit and we can stop squibling over things that most folks just furl their brow and parrot some idiotic main stream news channel talk show hosts veiwer gather opinion about.

I watched a news program yesterday where a woman was talking about Walmart and "a living wage". She indicated that employees of Walmart should make about $20 per hour so they could provide for their families. One clip showed a young lady with children. That lady had long fake finger nails, big gold chains around her neck and quite the hairdo not to mention the electronics the kids were playing with. It seems to me that those things cost money and if they can afford that kind of thing on her current salary why should her wage be doubled or almost tripled?

I certainly couldn't afford to buy myself gold chains (not to mention the upkeep on fake nails weekly or whatever it is) until I was in my late 20's when I got a decent paying job after having worked full time while going to college full time. It still took a few years in corporate America to make enough money that I could stop living paycheck to paycheck. It's called working hard for what you get.

I really don't understand how people can talk about "living wage" without talking about personal responsibility. Isn't it responsible to only have things you can afford? I apply that to material things or children. Why do people think they can have as many children as they want but someone else should have to pay for them? Why do people think material things are an entitlement these days? I have to have a 50" flat screen, a tablet, a laptop, a game system with all the best games or it's not "fair".

Why is an employer responsible to pay more because you had more children or want a bigger TV? Years ago I didn't even have a TV until a relative upgraded and gave me their old one. I used rabbit ears to watch only fuzzy local channels. Until I got a better education and a better job then I could afford a nicer TV and cable.

$20/hour to work at Walmart. $41,600 a year for a job that you do not even need a high school diploma. I can't believe people are actually discussing that this should happen. You want to make $20/hr? Get a good education, get a good job because the average starting salary of 2013 graduates is around $45,000.

😉

I wrote out this long thing about how stereotypes don't help anyone. But that's the liberal in me, ha ha!

I'm a liberal and I don't believe guns should be outlawed, I don't care what anyone believes or eats as long as they don't force it on me, and I don't think we've found the solution yet for healthcare. So I guess I don't fit that list.

hahahahahahaha, are you sure you are a liberal? Or a conservative in sheep's clothing? Come on over to the darkside, it's not as lonely as you might think. There are more and more moving center right all the time thanks to Pres. Obama exercising the truth and the ACA.

I just believe we should wage war against poor education, like we do brown people, so that we as a people, will stop being so ignorant, that we continue to reelect other people who will continue to herd us into the cattle lines of failure. There should be no higher goal in the world, because every single person will benefit and we can stop squibling over things that most folks just furl their brow and parrot some idiotic main stream news channel talk show hosts veiwer gather opinion about.

That wouldn';t work, Democrats need poor people this is what keeps them in office. Why do you think they are pushing for the immigration reform before 2014 primaries. Most Illegals will vote democrat and they realize this and they know they are in trouble.

I just believe we should wage war against poor education, like we do brown people, so that we as a people, will stop being so ignorant, that we continue to reelect other people who will continue to herd us into the cattle lines of failure. There should be no higher goal in the world, because every single person will benefit and we can stop squibling over things that most folks just furl their brow and parrot some idiotic main stream news channel talk show hosts veiwer gather opinion about.

That wouldn';t work, Democrats need poor people this is what keeps them in office. Why do you think they are pushing for the immigration reform before 2014 primaries. Most Illegals will vote democrat and they realize this and they know they are in trouble.

That topic gets talked about about this time before every election. It's a great talking point. Both sides talk about it too. Repocrats. Our last 4 PotUS haven't been very different in policy. Except for some on the frindge, they're all pretty moderate.

😉

I wrote out this long thing about how stereotypes don't help anyone. But that's the liberal in me, ha ha!

I'm a liberal and I don't believe guns should be outlawed, I don't care what anyone believes or eats as long as they don't force it on me, and I don't think we've found the solution yet for healthcare. So I guess I don't fit that list.

hahahahahahaha, are you sure you are a liberal? Or a conservative in sheep's clothing? Come on over to the darkside, it's not as lonely as you might think. There are more and more moving center right all the time thanks to Pres. Obama exercising the truth and the ACA.

Yeah who knows. I really consider myself more of a humanist, but that's not really a political affiliation.

I do see these days that there is more agreement about issues that were polarizing in the past, just coming at them from different sides. Some things don't require a political affiliation to cause outrage.

divinggirl, i agree. and not just that but if they have to raise non educated workers pay to 15-20 an hour wouldn't everyone's pay have to be raised also. i mean those who worked hard to get where they are or went to college, they SHOULD make more than the guy flipping burgers or bagging your stuff at walmart. i do agree the minimum should be raised but it should not be more than a lot of educated peoples wages.

My personal favorite of non-responsibility is the motorcycle rider who doesn't wear a helmet, gets slammed by a car and spends the rest of his/her life paralyzed and living at our expense. But I'm sure everyone has his/her own pet peeves.

I just believe we should wage war against poor education, like we do brown people, so that we as a people, will stop being so ignorant, that we continue to reelect other people who will continue to herd us into the cattle lines of failure. There should be no higher goal in the world, because every single person will benefit and we can stop squibling over things that most folks just furl their brow and parrot some idiotic main stream news channel talk show hosts veiwer gather opinion about.

Interesting, but who is responsible for ensuring that people take advantage of the education that is offered? We have public schools already, I went to public school in Tennessee. A lot of the education process depends on the effort that the individual puts into it. We have not yet figured out how to pump knowledge into people without any effort on their part.

Maybe we should hold parents responsible. If you have kids and they don't graduate from high school then the parents are held accountable? We already have free and mandatory education through high school, the real problem is forcing everyone to take it seriously and to take advantage of it.

My personal favorite of non-responsibility is the motorcycle rider who doesn't wear a helmet, gets slammed by a car and spends the rest of his/her life paralyzed and living at our expense. But I'm sure everyone has his/her own pet peeves.

This is a good example of the nanny state at work in a totally inconsistent way. Most states require helmets. Isn't this a limit on personal freedom? Not everyone who rides without a helmet has an accident. Wouldn't we be a more free country if we allowed people to wear a helmet or not but if you have an accident then you are on your own.

How is riding a motorcycle without a helmet any different that smoking cigarettes? Every pack is labeled telling you that cigarettes are known killers, why don't we just outlaw cigarettes? It's that old personal freedom thing. Yet when people get lung cancer and can't pay who is held accountable? The public, all of us pay for stupidity on the part of smokers. MANY more die from smoking than from riding motorcycles without a helmet.

We would all be much more free if we had fewer rules but held people accountable for their own stupidity or lack of responsibility. I know it sounds harsh but why should you be free to do stupid things and then FORCE others to pay for it?

Our economy is currently a monopoly of about 12 major corporations, most of which who receive significant and nauseating amounts of corporate welfare from our government.

I never got an answer as to where this came from. Do you really believe this? This sounds like a conspiracy theory. Please post a link to your source.

What do you mean by corporate welfare? Do you mean subsidies? Tax breaks? Many of these are used to reduce the cost of goods to the end user.

For example, the petroleum industry gets many tax breaks and subsidies. Much of this offsets the real cost of doing business and lowers the price at the pump. The government subsidizes the cost of exploration and production of oil.

Have you looked at the worldwide price of oil? Check out those Scandinavian countries that liberals love so much, they pay 3 times as much as the US for gasoline. That's probably why they ride bicycles more than we do.
http://www.chron.com/news/gallery/Ranking-gasoline-prices-around-the-world-65026/photo-4822761.php

Why does the US have some of the lowest gasoline prices in the world? Because it is subsidized. Yes those nasty oil companies get money from the government to keep prices low. Who benefits? Everyone. Who pays? Primarily the "rich". Those subsidies come primarily from "income taxes" of which the top 25% of earners pay almost 90% of the income taxes. This is a form of wealth transfer. Rich to poor.
http://www.ntu.org/tax-basics/who-pays-income-taxes.html

I personally would like to see all subsidies go away. I would like for everyone to pay the REAL cost of the goods that they consume. Gasoline, food, housing, etc. Everyone should pay what the goods really cost.

I meant our food industry, my bad. Not the entire economy. You can run a search for a link if you're interested.

I'm done discussing this though - I try to stay out of political threads, I just wind up breaking my own rules from time to time. But I'm done, I'm going back to talking about how to ship stuff to the VI. Have fun everyone! *grins*

I personally would like to see all subsidies go away. I would like for everyone to pay the REAL cost of the goods that they consume. Gasoline, food, housing, etc. Everyone should pay what the goods really cost.

I'll make my parting comment to be - I agree with this!

Ive been saying this for YEARS.... In MY opinion, every single one of our problems as a nation can be traced back to TWO THINGS.

NO PERSONAL ACCOUNTABILITY and ENTITLEMENT.
No matter which side of the fence you are on this is the problem and it relates to everything from education to health care.

While I don't disagree with Jamison about education needing to be a serious focus - the sad fact is that WE ARE BREEDING ENTITLED KIDS (and breeding them at a staggering rate). It is OUR fault. Sure, maybe teachers are slacking a bit as a result of the following but IMHO it is the PARENTS who are not following up with their children. Kids blame the teachers when in reality we have continued to breed a society who has no personal accountability and full of entitlement. Kids get bad grades? Well it CAN'T be my little angels fault... heres an iPad to make you feel better. Don't blame the teachers for your kids bad grades. Parents are at fault NOT the system IMO.

This healthcare situation sickens me. I should not have to pay for someone who chooses/or not to not pay for themselves. This country is WAY to PC. Everyone believes that they should receive help. No, sorry thats not the way out works in the real world..... well it didn't used to and nowadays it shouldn't either. If you can not afford to help yourself then why should others help you? They shouldn't. As sad as might be to hear.... Its called SURVIVAL OF THE FITTEST. Just like in the wild - some are meant to make it and some are not. As sad as death may be, the fact is that we as humans have every ability to help ourselves. GASP I know!

Perhaps if we didn't "help out" every person we would have a more stable country and be breeding future world leaders instead of breeding future "Honey Boo Boos".

*My exception to this is the Military. We SHOULD be paying whatever they need and imagine how we could help the people who fought for our country if we weren't helping the drug addicts and crack heads who visit hospitals on our dime as stated above.

here is a question, you know that there was a fund raiser for a local person who had a recurrence of cancer. she had insurance but it was dropped after it was being used too much ( something to that effect ) after her last bout with cancer. what should this person had done in this situation. your insurance company drops you because you used it, there is none to be had on island, so short of moving to the states what should she have done?

and just because i ask this does not mean i believe in the ACA, far from it. way too many problems already and it has barely even started. i hate to see what is coming

here is a question, you know that there was a fund raiser for a local person who had a recurrence of cancer. she had insurance but it was dropped after it was being used too much ( something to that effect ) after her last bout with cancer. what should this person had done in this situation. your insurance company drops you because you used it, there is none to be had on island, so short of moving to the states what should she have done?

If she paid her premiums and her insurance company violated the terms of her policy then I would talk to an attorney.

Why is it unreasonable for someone to move to a different location under exceptional conditions. I have moved many times due to job requirements or availability.

As for insurance not being available here, we should all be upset with our local government. They set the requirements for insurance companies to offer coverage in the territory. Their requirements are extreme, that's why ALL insurance is over priced or unavailable here. They need to let the big insurance companies from the states offer insurance here without making them jump through extraordinary hoops. We would all benefit, except for the local insurance companies.

Who pays? Primarily the "rich". Those subsidies come primarily from "income taxes" of which the top 25% of earners pay almost 90% of the income taxes. This is a form of wealth transfer. Rich to poor.
http://www.ntu.org/tax-basics/who-pays-income-taxes.html .

Please source that 😉

the only study on taxes I know of states that income taxes do not even end up at the federal government as a part of it's budget.

See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Grace_Commission

Here's a great quote from the report:

all individual income tax revenues are gone before one nickel is spent on the services [that] taxpayers expect from their government.

Who pays? Primarily the "rich". Those subsidies come primarily from "income taxes" of which the top 25% of earners pay almost 90% of the income taxes. This is a form of wealth transfer. Rich to poor.
http://www.ntu.org/tax-basics/who-pays-income-taxes.html .

Please source that 😉

My sources are the following.

I included the link above which details who pays income taxes.

The following link shows where the federal government gets its revenue. Note that by far the two largest sources are payroll taxes and income taxes. With Payroll taxes accounting for 34% and individual income taxes accounting for 46%. If you add in corporate income taxes then it goes up to 57% for income taxes.
http://nationalpriorities.org/budget-basics/federal-budget-101/revenues/

"Federal payroll taxes apply to wages and are used to fund the major social insurance programs of the federal government, Social security and Medicare (Part A). They are shown as FICA taxes on paystubs."
http://keepingamericagreat.org/glossary/payroll-taxes-vs-income-taxes/#sthash.4q4ihtKz.dpuf

So all programs except for social insurance programs are funded primarily by income taxes or the deficit.