new president

Oh those ad hominem arguments.

Ad Hominem, or "to the man" logical fallacy occurs when someone attacks the messenger in a topically unrelated way to discredit the message.

like "don't listen to Gator's Mom, she's a woman". or something similar...

just FYI.

My comment had nothing to do with the overall military budget. You change the subject.

More examples of how you don't understand the situation. Any "benefit" active duty military members receive comes out of the military budget. Then you mentioned "life time medical" which is the VA budget... so yea, you covered close to the entire military budget with your complaints.

As a matter of fact, I have friends and family actively serving in the military.

I know a few surgeons, my mom was an NPR my whole life but I do not expect that I have any way of an understanding in regards to the complexities of the medical industry because of that (or to compound the situation, the financial aspects of the medical industry).

Polio, measles, mumps, chicken pox and diphtheria are why vaccines are essential to protect babies. But if you don't care about anybody but yourself then let's help those diseases make a come back.

So I (and 3 of my children and 1 grand daughter) should be dead, or have polio, measles, mumps, etc etc... ? (oh, I guess I have had measles....)
Just for fun, lets look at data?

Maybe in other countries it's different though, right?

Funny, i guess they aren't essential; eh? I certainly do believe they can be beneficial, especially for high risk situations; but "essential to protect babies"?
meh...

Or by "protection" do you mean keeping them away from being uncomfortable?

we should bubble wrap everyone until they are 25, safer that way.

https://www.tricare.mil/Costs/HealthPlanCosts/PrimeOptions/EnrollmentFees

Military retirees (pre Medicare) pay less than $50 per month for family medical coverage. This is shameful when the rest of us pay over $1,000 per month. If the military families were part of ACA or a single payor insurance plan the cost would come down for everyone.

Why not give everyone access to Tricare?

This is not about military budgets - it's about the military class being more entitled than the rest of us in accessing affordable health care and other lucrative government benefits.

Your politics are bought by your entitlements.

BTW you did change the topic from military entitlements to the military budget and let me know I didn't know what I was talking about.

Oh those ad hominem arguments.

Ad Hominem, or "to the man" logical fallacy occurs when someone attacks the messenger in a topically unrelated way to discredit the message.

like "don't listen to Gator's Mom, she's a woman". or something similar...

just FYI.

My comment had nothing to do with the overall military budget. You change the subject.

More examples of how you don't understand the situation. Any "benefit" active duty military members receive comes out of the military budget. Then you mentioned "life time medical" which is the VA budget... so yea, you covered close to the entire military budget with your complaints.

As a matter of fact, I have friends and family actively serving in the military.

I know a few surgeons, my mom was an NPR my whole life but I do not expect that I have any way of an understanding in regards to the complexities of the medical industry because of that (or to compound the situation, the financial aspects of the medical industry).

Polio, measles, mumps, chicken pox and diphtheria are why vaccines are essential to protect babies. But if you don't care about anybody but yourself then let's help those diseases make a come back.

So I (and 3 of my children and 1 grand daughter) should be dead, or have polio, measles, mumps, etc etc... ? (oh, I guess I have had measles....)
Just for fun, lets look at data?

Maybe in other countries it's different though, right?

Funny, i guess they aren't essential; eh? I certainly do believe they can be beneficial, especially for high risk situations; but "essential to protect babies"?
meh...

Or by "protection" do you mean keeping them away from being uncomfortable?

we should bubble wrap everyone until they are 25, safer that way.

Yes, and Obama hung in effigy and depicted as an ape, and . . .

Still laughing.

oh yeah? please show me ONE public figure that did that.

Show me one music video...

show me ANYWHERE that the main stream media supported that like they are doing currently.

Your anecdote is cute, but hardly comparable to the current situation.

Moving the goalposts. Tsk, Tsk. Must be time to review your logical fallacy list.

LBJ finally ended the Civil War but got way over his head in Vietnam.

But lucky for us, LBJ was succeeded by the ever so popular Nixon.

Just goes to show the US can survive difficult crazy a$$ presidents.

Maybe.

There are two things we both agree on
"He was a racist MF" also a genious of a politician.

Also a complete piece of sh#@. Changed our country in a profoundly negative way.
Maybe even killed Kennedy.

[/quote

Nixon was crazy, but at least he had brains. 😉

 

https://www.tricare.mil/Costs/HealthPlanCosts/PrimeOptions/EnrollmentFees

Military retirees (pre Medicare) pay less than $50 per month for family medical coverage. This is shameful when the rest of us pay over $1,000 per month. If the military families were part of ACA or a single payor insurance plan the cost would come down for everyone.

Why not give everyone access to Tricare?

Tricare is terrible, I wouldn't wish that on anyone

I have blue cross blue/ shield and I pay for it; far more than 300 a month.

How many retired military do you think there are? (around 2 million

This is not about military budgets - it's about the military class being more entitled than the rest of us in accessing affordable health care and other lucrative government benefits.

"Lucrative benefits" like loosing a leg and not having to pay property taxes because your disabled?

those entitlements come out of the "defense budgets" so I'm confused how it doesn't apply

Your politics are bought by your entitlements.

I have 6 years of active duty and 11 in the guard... what entitlements?

hahahaha, I have none (or are you talking about the 5% off I get at plaza?); I'm certainly not entitled to my job, I worked very hard to get to the point that I can pick where I want to work due to qualifications; I applied for it against hundreds of applicants.

Your attitude confuses me.

BTW you did change the topic from military entitlements to the military budget and let me know I didn't know what I was talking about.

Well they are the same thing really, since the budget pays for them... haha I still don't htink you know what your talking about, especially if you think the military budget is not related to retired members benefits (it's the part called VA, or Veterans Affairs).

Ok, so you don't want to talk about how the "entitlements" are paid for you just want to bitch because there's entitlements?

I thought this was some sort of legitimate discussion about budgets and what the current president is doing.. now your off on some random anti-military slant (which is pretty poorly informed) because of retired members benefits?

You know its a volunteer military, YOU could have joined and did 20 years... (I didn't make it past 6) but since you couldn't do that your complaining that people who could get something for it?

I mean everyone is entitled to an opinion, I just thought you had some sort of point there.

I only bring it up because those with access to military retirement and health care benefits (good bad or indifferent) are in a far better position than most Americans, particularly those in the VI. You will never be without access to health care insurance once you retire from the military (if you do) and qualify for Tricare (good bad or indifferent).

The US would not have a military if entitlements weren't promised - 20 year retirement, access to health care, free college, PX, USAA - shall I go on? You may not like these much but you have access. The military creates a bubble for its members and its families.

Nonetheless, you and your political allies want to remove access for many for food or basic health care? You declare these as entitlements? Really?

I have a friend who tripped and sprained his arm while on active duty and he qualifies for a property tax break. LOL

https://www.tricare.mil/Costs/HealthPlanCosts/PrimeOptions/EnrollmentFees

Military retirees (pre Medicare) pay less than $50 per month for family medical coverage. This is shameful when the rest of us pay over $1,000 per month. If the military families were part of ACA or a single payor insurance plan the cost would come down for everyone.

Why not give everyone access to Tricare?

Tricare is terrible, I wouldn't wish that on anyone

I have blue cross blue/ shield and I pay for it; far more than 300 a month.

How many retired military do you think there are? (around 2 million

This is not about military budgets - it's about the military class being more entitled than the rest of us in accessing affordable health care and other lucrative government benefits.

"Lucrative benefits" like loosing a leg and not having to pay property taxes because your disabled?

those entitlements come out of the "defense budgets" so I'm confused how it doesn't apply

Your politics are bought by your entitlements.

I have 6 years of active duty and 11 in the guard... what entitlements?

hahahaha, I have none (or are you talking about the 5% off I get at plaza?); I'm certainly not entitled to my job, I worked very hard to get to the point that I can pick where I want to work due to qualifications; I applied for it against hundreds of applicants.

Your attitude confuses me.

BTW you did change the topic from military entitlements to the military budget and let me know I didn't know what I was talking about.

Well they are the same thing really, since the budget pays for them... haha I still don't htink you know what your talking about, especially if you think the military budget is not related to retired members benefits (it's the part called VA, or Veterans Affairs).

Ok, so you don't want to talk about how the "entitlements" are paid for you just want to bitch because there's entitlements?

I thought this was some sort of legitimate discussion about budgets and what the current president is doing.. now your off on some random anti-military slant (which is pretty poorly informed) because of retired members benefits?

You know its a volunteer military, YOU could have joined and did 20 years... (I didn't make it past 6) but since you couldn't do that your complaining that people who could get something for it?

I mean everyone is entitled to an opinion, I just thought you had some sort of point there.

The US would not have a military if entitlements weren't promised - 20 year retirement, access to health care, free college, PX, USAA - shall I go on? You may not like these much but you have access. The military creates a bubble for its members and its families.

Yeah, and doctors wouldn't be doctors with out the high pay, what exactly is your point?

sounds like you got a case of the jellies (and not for anything good mind you) I dunno what the hell your talking about with "health insurance" I see the ER packed with people who have no insurance & they are seen.

so, what are you really complaining about?

Nonetheless, you and your political allies want to remove access for many for food or basic health care? You declare these as entitlements? Really?

First off,

do you know the definition of entitlement?

en·ti·tle·ment
noun
the fact of having a right to something.
"full entitlement to fees and maintenance should be offered"
synonyms: right, prerogative, claim; More
the amount to which a person has a right.
"annual leave entitlement"
synonyms: right, prerogative, claim; More
the belief that one is inherently deserving of privileges or special treatment.
"no wonder your kids have a sense of entitlement"

Second off, me and my what?

Sorry, can't pigeon hole me that easily, my political belief system would put ME out of a job first, I'm a conservative libertarian & constitutionallist. I think the federal government is MADLY out of control and size (especially our military) and that we should go back to following the constitution (specifically the 10th amendment).

I have a friend who tripped and sprained his arm while on active duty and he qualifies for a property tax break. LOL

No, you have a friend that is lying to you 😉

How are we comparing benefits for those that signed an agreement to serve our
country and give their limbs or maybe they're life. The benefits they receive are part of the agreement they signed.

To

Giving money to those that are in a situation that the government feels it necessary at the expense of the taxpayers.

I think we need the military members too survive as a country.

How are we comparing benefits for those that signed an agreement to serve our
country and give their limbs or maybe they're life. The benefits they receive are part of the agreement they signed.

To

Giving money to those that are in a situation that the government feels it necessary at the expense of the taxpayers.

I think we need the military members too survive as a country.

I agree without the military we couldn't have the military industrial complex. That keeps America going, the perpetual bombing of brown people. The health care cr@p show road the Republicans are down is going to be their demise. Obamacare could and would work with a few tweaks. Repeating and replacing with a far less popular program will be awesome for dems in 2018.

I agree without the military we couldn't have the military industrial complex. That keeps America going, the perpetual bombing of brown people.

Only because we ran out of white people after WW1 and WW2... but hey, from the push of the establishment it looks like WHITE MEAT IS BACK ON THE MENU!!! (chilled white meat)....or do you think "russia" being behind EVERYTHING now isn't war hawking, i'm not sure.. syra seems to be the appetizer at least.

The health care cr@p show road the Republicans are down is going to be their demise. Obamacare could and would work with a few tweaks. Repeating and replacing with a far less popular program will be awesome for dems in 2018.

I guess this stops in the senate, if it even passes the house

The health care cr@p show road the Republicans are down is going to be their demise. Obamacare could and would work with a few tweaks. Repeating and replacing with a far less popular program will be awesome for dems in 2018.

for as much as you like to pontificate about how "scientific" you are, the fact that you can type this makes you a fraud

Your inability to realize the only popularity it had was based on heavy subsidies and mis-pricing by the market and want to claim it as a success is laughable

http://budget.house.gov/news/documentsingle.aspx?DocumentID=364048

This may help you to understand the difference between what is paid through the military budget.

http://budget.house.gov/news/documentsingle.aspx?DocumentID=364048

This may help you to understand the difference between what is paid through the DOD budget or the VA.

http://statesidelegal.org/library/2780

All those entitlements to choose from.

You're against Social security - Medicare - Medicaid? Oh wait - you qualify for that too!

 

gatorsmom, you dont think those who serve in our military should get special benefits?

wow. amazing you would think that way. they take the chance to die to protect your rights.

they deserve that and more.

Those that participate in active duty in a war zone and are somehow affected mentally or physically, absolutely should qualify for benefits that assist them indefinitely if necessary.

However, with a volunteer military - it's just another job unless someone is shooting at you - but how often does this occur? It's a career path based on exceptionalism and political prowess. Talking about officers and NCOs here. These for the most part are not the poor shmucks laid up in the VA.

Why have these exceptional constructs such as the VA and other entitlements that provide separate but unequal benefits from the rest of the US civil service? Think about how reducing DOD and VA personnel programs might decrease the federal budget. Why have singular bureaucratic functions that each do the same thing? Why shouldn't veterans and military members use the same health services that civilians do?

Why shouldn't the military be part of Trump's efforts to reduce and destroy the administrative functions of the US government? We'll see how that plays out.

gatorsmom, you dont think those who serve in our military should get special benefits?

wow. amazing you would think that way. they take the chance to die to protect your rights.

they deserve that and more.

The health care cr@p show road the Republicans are down is going to be their demise. Obamacare could and would work with a few tweaks. Repeating and replacing with a far less popular program will be awesome for dems in 2018.

for as much as you like to pontificate about how "scientific" you are, the fact that you can type this makes you a fraud

Your inability to realize the only popularity it had was based on heavy subsidies and mis-pricing by the market and want to claim it as a success is laughable

Obamacare is WAY more popular, even today, than the bill proposed by House that benefits most... wait for it.. millionaires. Most Medicaid expenses are not allocated to "the lazy" but rather disabled and elderly who are obviously far less desirable than millionaires. I never claimed.it was a success other than it out millions of Americans on insurance who never had it before. Like I said, it would work with tweaking, but not as good as a single payer system obviously.

Many of those 20 million who will no longer have insurance are those who were forced to purchase it under the individual and employer "mandates".

Let America be free. Let individuals decide for themselves if they wish to participate. If the plan is so great why do people need to be forced to participate?

Where is wealth redistribution mentioned in the constitution? Where is healthcare mentioned in the Bill of Rights?

Fake Rights!

Many of those 20 million who will no longer have insurance are those who were forced to purchase it under the individual and employer "mandates".

Let America be free. Let individuals decide for themselves if they wish to participate. If the plan is so great why do people need to be forced to participate?

Where is wealth redistribution mentioned in the constitution? Where is healthcare mentioned in the Bill of Rights?

Fake Rights!

Choosing not to have health care, while full of "freedom and liberty" screws those of us who do have it when cancer gets the freedom to inhabit your body, or your liberty leads you to fall and break your hip. Happiest country in the world? Not freedom.and liberty rich Murica

The health care cr@p show road the Republicans are down is going to be their demise. Obamacare could and would work with a few tweaks. Repeating and replacing with a far less popular program will be awesome for dems in 2018.

for as much as you like to pontificate about how "scientific" you are, the fact that you can type this makes you a fraud

Your inability to realize the only popularity it had was based on heavy subsidies and mis-pricing by the market and want to claim it as a success is laughable

Obamacare is WAY more popular, even today, than the bill proposed by House that benefits most... wait for it.. millionaires. Most Medicaid expenses are not allocated to "the lazy" but rather disabled and elderly who are obviously far less desirable than millionaires. I never claimed.it was a success other than it out millions of Americans on insurance who never had it before. Like I said, it would work with tweaking, but not as good as a single payer system obviously.

It popular because people went paying the full costs. Anything after that is intellectually dishonest

The health care cr@p show road the Republicans are down is going to be their demise. Obamacare could and would work with a few tweaks. Repeating and replacing with a far less popular program will be awesome for dems in 2018.

for as much as you like to pontificate about how "scientific" you are, the fact that you can type this makes you a fraud

Your inability to realize the only popularity it had was based on heavy subsidies and mis-pricing by the market and want to claim it as a success is laughable

Google can be your friend. It isn't hard to see, that even today, Obamacare is more popular than kicking 24 million off health care, transitioning costs to seniors and giving multi millionaires more tax breaks. Tell me how the republican plan for HSAs will work when you have no money? Tax breaks? The house plan is unicorn farts

Obamacare is WAY more popular, even today, than the bill proposed by House that benefits most... wait for it.. millionaires. Most Medicaid expenses are not allocated to "the lazy" but rather disabled and elderly who are obviously far less desirable than millionaires. I never claimed.it was a success other than it out millions of Americans on insurance who never had it before. Like I said, it would work with tweaking, but not as good as a single payer system obviously.

It popular because people went paying the full costs. Anything after that is intellectually dishonest

Those that participate in active duty in a war zone and are somehow affected mentally or physically, absolutely should qualify for benefits that assist them indefinitely if necessary.

However, with a volunteer military - it's just another job unless someone is shooting at you - but how often does this occur?

How often?

3.5 years out of my 17 were in combat zones, I was blown up 7 times, shot at, countless rocket attacks & mortar attacks; had a good friend bleed out in my arms just a few KM from the FOB......

So for me, it's kind of hard to see your point on this whole thing; or rather, not see you as a raging asshole 😉

It's a career path based on exceptionalism and political prowess. Talking about officers and NCOs here. These for the most part are not the poor shmucks laid up in the VA.

Oh, it doesn't apply to us NCO's, well that's nice to hear.... luckily I"m not laid up in the VA hospital (yet).

Why have these exceptional constructs such as the VA and other entitlements that provide separate but unequal benefits from the rest of the US civil service?

Huh, I"m in Civil service (that's my full time job) and I already told you why, Tricare is terrible compared to what I'm offered in civil service (blue cross blue shield) and I take that even though its a lot more expensive.

I won't even tell you the crap I went through with Tricare and my first child... because you already ahve your mind set up that it's some golden care... it's the absolute worst there is, period.

Think about how reducing DOD and VA personnel programs might decrease the federal budget.

Wait, NOW we are talking budget?

Holy shit this is hard to keep up with......

Why have singular bureaucratic functions that each do the same thing? Why shouldn't veterans and military members use the same health services that civilians do?

I think you need to look up the definiton of "entitlement" and "benefit" again... your very confused.

The military gets those services as a "BENEFIT" of service... your advocating for entitlement (Giving people shit for free basically).

Giving poeple shit for free never works, we've seen this time and time again especially with the native populations of the US (in the lower 48 and alaska)

Why shouldn't the military be part of Trump's efforts to reduce and destroy the administrative functions of the US government? We'll see how that plays out.

There's a good question, I agree. The military should be cut also (Like maybe those 500 military bases we have OUTSIDE the US????)

Those that participate in active duty in a war zone and are somehow affected mentally or physically, absolutely should qualify for benefits that assist them indefinitely if necessary.

However, with a volunteer military - it's just another job unless someone is shooting at you - but how often does this occur? It's a career path based on exceptionalism and political prowess. Talking about officers and NCOs here. These for the most part are not the poor shmucks laid up in the VA.

Why have these exceptional constructs such as the VA and other entitlements that provide separate but unequal benefits from the rest of the US civil service? Think about how reducing DOD and VA personnel programs might decrease the federal budget. Why have singular bureaucratic functions that each do the same thing? Why shouldn't veterans and military members use the same health services that civilians do?

Why shouldn't the military be part of Trump's efforts to reduce and destroy the administrative functions of the US government? We'll see how that plays out.

Gator's mom, I can assure you that serving in the military is not "just another job". I'm sure there are different reasons people "volunteer" in the military. The ones I know want to serve their country. While I think the "entitlements" offered to military personal and their families as part of their employment package is well deserved and earned for their extreme sacrifice, I can appreciate a differing opinion. I can also agree with you that through modern technology that many of our service members don't see as much combat as in the past. I am thankful for that. Sadly we still have too many who come home missing parts of their bodies and their minds.

I imagine that veterans could use the same health services that civilians use and that might be an improvement to the care that many vets are receiving through the VA but how do you purpose that military families and active duty stationed all over the world be able to access that care?

Finally, many large employers offer paid medical insurance for their employees. Many people take jobs just for the benefit package. Should the military not be offered the same? I do understand that the money provided for military benefits comes from taxpayer dollars but doesn't every government employee get most of their medical insurance cost covered by tax payer dollars? I could be wrong on that.

 

I do understand that the money provided for military benefits comes from taxpayer dollars but doesn't every government employee get most of their medical insurance cost covered by tax payer dollars? I could be wrong on that.

yes we do, my blue cross blue/shield insurance is heavily subsidized by my employer (Department of Defense); I couldn't afford the coverage I have with out that. (I also probably don't need the coverage I have... haha)

Thanks LiquidFluoride. My husband was like you, eight years active duty and then civil service. We had great medical with civil service and with 5 rugrats at home I know we could still afford it. I just couldn't remember how much we payed but I think less than half.

You use the excuse that someone might get sick or might have an accident and not have insurance as an excuse to force everyone to participate in your "collectivist" healthcare.

I guess once you have everyone on your fantastic single payer system then you can start limiting what people can do using the same logic. I mean why should people be allowed to do dangerous activities, sky-diving, flying, hang gliding, skiing, motocross, etc, etc. Any activity that you consider dangerous could be outlawed because people might incur healthcare costs that you would consider excessive and unfair.

Any activity that wasn't deemed safe by lefties could be prohibited using your logic.

I would rather be allowed my freedom. I am responsible for my own insurance and am responsible for the consequences of my actions. Your limited freedom is a slippery slope.

Many of those 20 million who will no longer have insurance are those who were forced to purchase it under the individual and employer "mandates".

Let America be free. Let individuals decide for themselves if they wish to participate. If the plan is so great why do people need to be forced to participate?

Where is wealth redistribution mentioned in the constitution? Where is healthcare mentioned in the Bill of Rights?

Fake Rights!

Choosing not to have health care, while full of "freedom and liberty" screws those of us who do have it when cancer gets the freedom to inhabit your body, or your liberty leads you to fall and break your hip. Happiest country in the world? Not freedom.and liberty rich Murica