what do you think of the smoking ban

Aussie, If all smokers were as considerate as you say that you are then we would probably not be having this discussion. Many are not.

I like to eat my food without breathing smoke the whole time. This is often difficult at open air restaurants here on island. Many smokers think that open air restaurants means that they can smoke as much as they like without bothering anyone. I will tell you that is not the case. I cannot tell you how many times that I have had discussions about smoking with people at adjacent tables. I do not enjoy these verbal confrontations.

The estimate was that 20% of adults in the US smoked in 2004. The goal of the Surgeon General was to reduce that to 12% by 2010. They say that they are on target.

Smoking Bans in the US
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_smoking_bans_in_the_United_States#Statewide_bans_on_smoking_in_all_general_public_places

Yikes, rotorhead. I'm on your side, for the most part.

Of course tobacco is more harmful to smokers and secondhand smokers than marijuana is. I just didn't think it was quite accurate to say that marijuana kills 0 people per year.

Yes, I do think one could consider tobacco and alcohol gateway drugs, assuming your definition of "gateway drug" includes legal substances. Rarely does anyone go straight to using heroin... or straight to marijuana, for that matter. My point was simply that of the illegal drugs, marijuana seems to be a popular first choice, which is not uncommonly (though certainly not always) followed by the use of another illegal drug, many of which have dangerous side effects like cardiac arrhythmias (cocaine), apnea (heroin), violent behavior (PCP), etc.

Of course it's rarely the drug itself that leads to the gang violence, etc. It's our society's treatment of those substances... but that's not to say that legalizing everything is the right answer... and I suspect that there would be issues with tobacco if it were made illegal. I don't have the right answer. I just find it an interesting discussion. And I am all for avoiding secondhand smoke.

last time i checked marijuana is a form of tabacco

2ND hand kills
My mother in law never smoked a cigarette a day in her life...............how ever she shared an office with a chain smoker, back in the day it was common to smoke at work while at your desk..
She DIED of lung cancer.............maybe we should ask her about smokers rights and 2ND hand smoke........oh wait, ya can't shes DEAD.
As a former smoker myself, after 20 plus years of tar and poison inhaled, I pray every day I will be spared cancer and the grim reaper's death grip.
Smoke all you want, it's your body, your choice and currently your legal right.........just don't puff and blow it in my direction......I made the choice to be smoke free...........my body, my choice not to indulge.........

i still do not see the whole point of banning smoking outside. if you are on the beach smoking where it the smoke going to go......up of course. so when rotorhead flies over he will get second hand smoke? does all this make sense?????

sensible guidelines could be placed. tourists would have to smoke in open air bars, 5 feet from store fronts etc. or on certain corners down town where those funny looking ashtrays are placed. then all woudl be happy.

end of discussion!!!!!!
(high fives speedy and aussie)

high five dixiechick

Rotorhead, agreed. Consideration of, and respect for, other people’s wishes goes a long way. It appears that we can find some common ground even on this issue.

Many folks here have asserted their “rights” in this discussion. Smokers assert their right to smoke when no such right exists. Smoking is legal in many places and prohibited in others. Non-smokers have asserted their “right” to dine in smoke-free environments when no such right exists. Again, smoking is legal in many places and prohibited in others. The only rights we’re talking about here are property rights.

With the exception of where those rights have been taken from property owners, the owner of a restaurant/ bar has the right to allow/prohibit smoking within their establishments. Smokers and non-smokers can then choose to patronize, or not to patronize, those establishments. Pretty simple, eh? Then, just let economics drive those policies.

Right back at ya, DixieChick!

Speee1dy, great question about “natural” or additive-free tobaccos. Interesting, isn’t it, that inhaling the smoke from marijuana is not linked with any cancer deaths but inhaling the smoke from tobacco is linked with boatloads of cancer deaths? Is tobacco causing those problems? Or could it be something else?

About 10 years ago, I read an article stating that the spike in tobacco related cancer deaths times out almost exactly with the mass production of commercially produced cigarettes. Lots of things can be read into that but I read enough articles to conclude that the argument may have substance. A lot of “additives” are used in commercially produced cigarettes to enhance the flavor, increase the nicotine levels, and keep them lit. If you put down an additive-free cigarette, it goes out rather quickly. Commercially produced cigarettes will burn to the butt.

I switched to loose, organic, additive-free tobacco – tasty stuff! And cheap too! At that time, the Fed wasn’t taxing loose tobacco so I was paying less than $7/carton. I’ve also grown my own tobacco. Growing it is easy. Curing it can be a bit more problematic but open air curing is simple enough – yank that sucker out by the roots and hang it upside down until it’s dry…LOL

I spoke with a fella yesterday that said tobacco grows quite well here in the islands. You can grow it in your yard as an ornamental plant. The plant itself is attractive. The blooms, although short-lived, are pretty. When it gets big enough, yank that sucker out by the roots and enjoy! You can buy seeds, tubes and stuffing machines online. In a matter of seconds, you can make cigarettes that look just like the commercially produced variety but without all of the chemicals and additives. Now if some folks would just let us enjoy one on the beach we’d be all set 🙂

i am with you yet again aussie. i have seen tobacco grown. we should have the weather for it. i know in n.c. it is grown in sandy soil.

then you keep suckering it. then take the leaves and hang upside down in a curing barn. (could probably use a microwave or oven.

then crush it and smoke.....it does smell good and healthy. but i am sure "some" would even have trouble with it.

does this ban also include a pipe?

will buy tobacco from aussie and smoke a pipe.

what would happen to steel smokes and sweets??? would then become steel a sweet????

aussie,
CAPT Rotorhead and his 1ST Mate Michael will be taking pictures (Zoom) from the Teal Gold peoples Liberation Police helicopter. You are going to have to cup it smile and wave. CAPT Rotorhead goes to restaurants knowing he is going to start a verbal confrontation.
Don't forget to buy his new book titled "I'M the Man".

aussie, thank you. lizzard, you are always funny.

last time i checked marijuana is a form of tabacco

Tobacco = genus Nicotiana.
Marijuana = genus Cannabis

I am curious about this 50,000 deaths a year number you keep throwing around Rotor. I admit that time is not on my side right now so I haven't been able to look into much (on a layover coming back from a 2 night trip to London for work ugh). But I am interested in the cases behind these numbers. Are these largely people who chose to work in venue's that are notoriously smokey (aka bars)? Or are these largely ever day people who avoid smoke when they see it but because secondhand smoke is somehow "unavoidable" die anyway? Are these people who chose to live with Smokers? What I'm getting at is are people who make all the right choices still dying in such high numbers or is it people who have made unfortunate choices and are now living with unfortunate consequences?

Sean

The 50,000 deaths number came from the US Surgeon General's report "The Health Consequences of Involuntary Exposure to Tobacco Smoke". The data to back up this report is referenced in the report. I have previously posted the link along with the summary where these numbers are mentioned. Please go look them up. Do you think that the Surgeon General and the CDC and the NIH and the WHO are simply making these numbers up in an effort to take away your personal freedoms or do you think that they might be trying to protect the citizens of this country from a health hazard as their jobs require?

I guess I still wonder why people think that their right to smoke a recreational drug gives them the right to kill other people. If it is really so important to smoke tobacco then invent something to contain the smoke when you do it. Please invent a smoke capture device that allows you to smoke without the rest of us having to breath it. I think that the burden of solving the second hand smoke problem should fall to the smokers and that they shouldn't expect the rest of us to just put up with it.

I am also very amused to note how Lizard and others, but especially Lizard is so much in favor of smoking rights but so opposed to legalizing marijuana. Aren't they both the same issue? Smoking tobacco accounts for far more deaths every year than marijuana. I know that one is currently legal and one is not but that is like saying our laws are perfect and we all know that they are not. If strict tobacco controls are put in place or if tobacco is outlawed will Lizard suddenly start arguing that tobacco is an awful destructive drug?

You see, unlike Lizards anti-marijuana stance, I am not against you being able to smoke your tobacco I am against being forced to breath it along with you. Given that tobacco is a very harmful recreational drug how can society condone its use and utterly reject the use of other recreational drugs which do far less harm to society.

actually pot impairs your mind and thoughts and reaction time. smoking cigarettes does not impair those. pot and alcohol impair you in basically the same way.
i have no problem with pot being legalized for in home use (not to be sold) you grow it you smoke it or for medical purposes. i will say that while i am in agreement with the legalization of pot i think that it does great harm to society.

actually pot impairs your mind and thoughts and reaction time. smoking cigarettes does not impair those. pot and alcohol impair you in basically the same way.
i have no problem with pot being legalized for in home use (not to be sold) you grow it you smoke it or for medical purposes. i will say that while i am in agreement with the legalization of pot i think that it does great harm to society.

I agree, both pot and alcohol can do great harm to society.

So does tobacco. 440,000 deaths a year in the US is great harm to society. Why shouldn't tobacco be subjected to the same limitations as pot? In home use (not to be sold) you grow it you smoke it. Why is tobacco special?

BTW what do you think is the great harm done to society by pot?

I am a libertarian. I believe in individual rights, personal freedom, minimalist government etc. I just feel that one persons personal freedom ends when he inflicts harm on another person. That's what we are arguing in the tobacco second hand smoke debate. Does second hand smoke harm non-smokers?

I believe that there are responsible recreational drug users and irresponsible recreational drug users. If people use recreational drugs they should be held accountable for their actions while using them. The drugs should not be able to be used as an excuse for unacceptable behavior.

DixieChick and speee1dy, we need to buy tobacco seeds now! There may still be time! LOL….we need to start a seed bank! I’ll buy the Burley and Virginia Gold Leaf seeds but there are just so many other tasty varieties.

http://www.seedman.com/Tobacco.htm

This month the PACT ACT was passed and awaits President Obama’s signature. I won’t try to summarize the act but one of the things it will do is prohibit tobacco and tobacco related products from being mailed through USPS. That starts to slam the door.

Those opposed to smoking may celebrate this news. They may want to look a little closer.

“Philip Morris USA is proud to support the PACT Act…” Hmmm…who are we really protecting here?

hehe lizards comment.

😀

rotorhead, i am not disputing what you say about cigarettes, but you keep implying that the others dont harm society as much . re-read your last post. tobacco is special because the government makes so much fricking money off of it. they make so much fricking money on booze too.
a carton of cigarettes in new york state ( the last i heard was selling for about $70.00 a carton, here that same carton would be about $22.00. so, the government is making about $50.00 per carton in some places. times that by the millions of smokers. thats unfortunately why cigarettes are so special. the government is not going to make cigarettes illegal and loose all of that money. i would imagine that was why Prohibition was repealed, they realized they were loosing out on all kinds of money.
sorry about the mis-spellings of your name earlier

btw, you are a great debater.

The government makes a lot of money on the taxes imposed on tobacco. That is why they won't make it illegal. If they do organized crime will make all the money. The drug cartels around the world spend much money lobbying congress to keep drugs illegal and they are probably behind lobbying to make tobacco illegal.

Sorry speee1dy, we must have been posting at the same time.

lol, dougtamjj. but it is so true

That my Ying and Yang CAPT sorry to confuse you. But Hey that's not hard. Are you getting a price on those cameras8-)

rotorhead, i am not disputing what you say about cigarettes, but you keep implying that the others dont harm society as much . re-read your last post. tobacco is special because the government makes so much fricking money off of it. they make so much fricking money on booze too.
a carton of cigarettes in new york state ( the last i heard was selling for about $70.00 a carton, here that same carton would be about $22.00. so, the government is making about $50.00 per carton in some places. times that by the millions of smokers. thats unfortunately why cigarettes are so special. the government is not going to make cigarettes illegal and loose all of that money. i would imagine that was why Prohibition was repealed, they realized they were loosing out on all kinds of money.
sorry about the mis-spellings of your name earlier

btw, you are a great debater.

If they legalized pot and taxed it they would make a ton of friggin money off of it. So I ask again what is the difference?

What you are really saying is that it is all politics. I agree.

lol rotorhead, but of course its all politics and read dougtamjj post after mine too

Pot makes you intoxicated and depending on what kind it is also a hallucinogenic. The effects on your lungs are worse than tobacco. If people smoked it like tobacco you would have lung disease contributed to it. The second hand smoke would have worse effects.