what do you think of the smoking ban

Legal Eagles, please weigh in on this one.

Rotorhead said: ” …If you are a restaurant owner you do not have a right to exclude people that you don't like. For instance you are not allowed to put up a sign that says "No Asians Allowed"….”

Is the first part of this statement true? My understanding is that discrimination is perfectly legal except that you may not discriminate against protected classes as identified by Federal and State laws. If the owner of a bar/restaurant chooses to refuse to serve people that don’t groom their eyebrows for example, isn’t it perfectly legal for them to do so?

Juanita said: “…Some have said one can choose not to patronize a particular restaurant, etc., but that, in effect, takes away the person's right to dine where they want..... “

Does such a right exist?

Aussie,
You don't have a right to dine and drink in a private club. Restaurant Owners have a right to establish (within reason?) Who they are going to serve within the spirit or letter of the Federal laws and State laws. Smoking is legal presently the choice is yours as to what would accommodate your needs,wants, and desires.

So, the right to dine where you want to does not exist, correct? The property owner/restaurant owner has the right to establish the rules and policies for their property so long as those rules/policies comply with "...the spirit or letter of the Federal laws and State laws...", correct?

YUP!

Thanks Lizard!

I agree with stiphy. This is an attempt to erode property rights.

I agree with Stiphy as well and that has me worried:@)

The Tale of Two Drugs

I agree that under the current laws smoking tobacco in public is legal. It is insane but it is legal. I do not agree that it is a right.

Take two drugs, tobacco and marijuana. Smoking tobacco is legal even in public places. Smoking marijuana is illegal even in the privacy of your own home. Even possessing it in your own home is illegal.

440,000 people a year die in the US due to tobacco. 0 people a year die in the US due to marijuana.

What are the purposes of our laws if not to protect our citizens.

The latest estimates are that 20% of the adult population smokes tobacco in the US.

All it would take to change things is for the other 80% to decide that we are tired of smokers causing the deaths of 50,000 of us non-smokers every year and demand that the laws be changed. It would not take a constitutional amendment to treat tobacco just like we currently treat marijuana.

How can smokers possibly justify their recreational drug use when it results in the deaths of 50,000 non-smokers every year?

The change in the law could be easily justified based on the damage that tobacco does to society, I mean if we can outlaw a harmless drug like marijuana then why not a harmful drug like tobacco.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think that tobacco should be outlawed in the privacy of your own home or that marijuana should be able to be smoked in public places, I am just pointing out how easy it would be to change the law to make tobacco illegal. It is not a right to smoke anything. The current laws make no sense.

I suspect that there have been deaths due to marijuana, depending on how much of an association you are willing to accept in order to blame marijuana -- driving while high, gang violence, gateway drug effects, etc. And smoking enough marijuana can damage the lungs. I do see what you mean, though, rotorhead. It would be interesting to look back on this in 100 years. Our history is full of all kinds of crazy laws that once seemed perfectly reasonable.

The general rule of torts and criminal law is that "My freedom to swing my fist stops at the tip of your nose." Literally, when I smoke in public, I am invading your person.

This is not Big Brother. This is stopping people from committing offenses against others.

This is also called the Golden Rule. "Do unto others as you would be done to"
people remark I have a terrible smokers cough yet I have never smoked-but my dad blew is Camel straights where he pleased.
Someone please direct me where in the Constitjtion were smoking is a "right"?

The general rule of torts and criminal law is that "My freedom to swing my fist stops at the tip of your nose." Literally, when I smoke in public, I am invading your person.

This is not Big Brother. This is stopping people from committing offenses against others.

This is also called the Golden Rule. "Do unto others as you would be done to"
people remark I have a terrible smokers cough yet I have never smoked-but my dad blew his Camel straights where he pleased.
Someone please direct me where in the Constition where smoking is a "right"?
I was privleged to ride in that little green helicopter and saw a Lot of people smile and wave-didn't see anyone run and hide.

Went to a smokehouse/BBQ joint in FL just after they banned smoking in FL. His sign on the roof was a pig with a cigarette hanging out of his mouth. The place is full of smoke all the time and people taking deep breaths of the smoke aroma. The pig now has the cigarette hang out it's a** and a warning for people not to breath or inhale the smoke. Before you start I do realize cigarette smoke and wood/charcoal smoke are different. Butt I like the symbolism of a business owner who feels he is being regulated to the poor house by government rules and regs. Most of us had parents or others dear to us that told us, Life is not Fair! It still isn't.. The Coffee and Tea parties are coming and I hope for my great-grand children who will be paying the debts we are creating today will forgive us. But wait 2012 is coming and we will all be dead ! Max out the credit !!!!!!

Michael,
I think it's on page two, 56Th Amendment of the "Constition". Huh! I see CAPT Rotorhead is recruiting for the "peoples liberation police". According to the CAPT It's Teal with Gold Trim not green. I always thought when people waved it was with five fingers up not one. If you could see people smile you were way to low.

I have really good zoom on the camera.

I suspect that there have been deaths due to marijuana, depending on how much of an association you are willing to accept in order to blame marijuana -- driving while high, gang violence, gateway drug effects, etc. And smoking enough marijuana can damage the lungs.

I would never suggest that marijuana is harmless, I was suggesting that tobacco is much more harmful than marijuana. Check it out for yourself. Google "tobacco deaths" then Google "marijuana deaths" and check out the results for yourself. Then compare the legal treatment of the two drugs.

I love it when people talk about gateway drugs. You realize that most people who do hard drugs have also done tobacco and alcohol. Does that make them gateway drugs as well? Gang violence? Is that caused by the drug or the underground distribution network. If we make tobacco illegal would it go underground and be associated with gang violence?

It is funny that some of the same people who defend the use of the deadliest drug in America, Tobacco, are the first to condemn the use of marijuana even though the damage to the American public is far greater from tobacco.

440,000 deaths due to tobacco use. 50,000 deaths of non-smokers due to tobacco use.

How many non-marijuana users have been killed by marijuana? Can you find a single one? I'm not talking about suspicions here, I'm talking documented cases? Which is the more dangerous drug?

I am NOT trying to use this as a forum to advocate the legalization of marijuana, I am simply pointing out the disparity in how the two drugs are treated by our legal system. TIME FOR A CHANGE.

I support the ban on smoking tobacco 100% !

Michaelds9, I don't run and hide when I see the green helicopter nor do I hate it anymore than I hate a rock laying on the ground. If someone threw that rock at me I might be angry with the thrower. I hate all these laws and do believe in the golden rule and common sense. I put my child in a car seat because I want him to be safe however he is now going on 70lbs and is just 6 years old. He doesn't need to be in a car seat any longer. I don't put a bicycle helmet on him and I am breaking the law. I don't like the government telling me what to do. They are supposed to do what we tell them to do. My analogy between peoples right to smoke because it is legal and the helicopter was not a good one. Kinda like comparing apples to oranges. My point was be careful of allowing the government to take away the freedoms of others because one day they may take away something you like to do such as flying a helicopter around crowds of people on a beach. It may be legal but it annoys some people. Smoking is legal but annoys some people. Again I will say that that is comparing apples to oranges and I cannot nor will I argue or site studies that show that flying a helicopter is going to kill people or dangerous. If it crashes on to the beach and kills people then it is dangerous. My perception of danger is my own. Maybe because when I was training to be a pilot there was so much emphasis on staying calm, cool and collected and roto seems easily excitable. However with that being said, studies show that show people who are in such professions such as being a pilot, seal team, divers, firefighters, police officers ect. tend to attract the arrogant. I happen to married to a man who has been in a few of those professions and he is always calm cool and collected but he does enjoy getting under the skin of those easily excitable. I guess after all these years he has rubbed off on me. So John I apologize for ruffling your feathers and I will leave you alone and will say again that my post was not an attack on you.

So now for the original question, What do you think of the smoking ban. I think it is stupid. If you don't like smoke walk away, don't go to places that allow smoking. If you hate it to the point that it disrupts your life vote to make it illegal. If it is legal then people have the right to do it. If an owner of a restaurant wants to allow smokers then they should be allowed to do so. There are many things that I don't like in this world but I can walk away. My biggest pet peeve on this island is people lighting up a joint next to my 6 year old and the foul language. I teach my giant of a boy to walk away. I show him by example. If I showed him otherwise like showing anger he will learn to intimidate others with his size and anger.

What if a smoke-o-phobe walks into a restaurant and everything seems fine and smoke-free, but later somebody lights up? It happens to me occasionally. Do you tell the waiter to cancel the order, or get the food to go and then wait outside to pay the bill? It sounds like a ruined evening, if you're a smoke-o-phobe.

When you sit down, ask the waiter for an ashtray. If he brings you one - leave. If he tells you that smoking is nat allowed - order.

Really not that tough to figger out.

Well back in the states in Virginia where I come from it is posted on the door if it is smoke free or not. I guess when you enter an establishment you could ask wether it was smoke free or not. If you make reservations you could ask the same question. I don't know if that would work or not if you were a homophobe. Excuse me, do you allow homosexuals at your establishment? Sometimes you just can't tell. 😮 Same for Christians, they all look alike to me especially the ones who smoke.

Yikes, rotorhead. I'm on your side, for the most part.

Of course tobacco is more harmful to smokers and secondhand smokers than marijuana is. I just didn't think it was quite accurate to say that marijuana kills 0 people per year.

Yes, I do think one could consider tobacco and alcohol gateway drugs, assuming your definition of "gateway drug" includes legal substances. Rarely does anyone go straight to using heroin... or straight to marijuana, for that matter. My point was simply that of the illegal drugs, marijuana seems to be a popular first choice, which is not uncommonly (though certainly not always) followed by the use of another illegal drug, many of which have dangerous side effects like cardiac arrhythmias (cocaine), apnea (heroin), violent behavior (PCP), etc.

Of course it's rarely the drug itself that leads to the gang violence, etc. It's our society's treatment of those substances... but that's not to say that legalizing everything is the right answer... and I suspect that there would be issues with tobacco if it were made illegal. I don't have the right answer. I just find it an interesting discussion. And I am all for avoiding secondhand smoke.

Yikes, rotorhead. I'm on your side, for the most part.

Sorry. I was not trying to pick on you. I was just trying to clarify a few things.

As Liz pointed out at the beginning of this discussion, smoking is one of my "buttons". The other is religious superstition.

The main problem that I have with smoking is that tobacco smoke is toxic, what other toxic substance do you know of that we are expected to be forced to breath in a public restaurant?

As far as leaving it up to the owner of the restaurant, if the owner of a restaurant decided to insulate the walls of the restaurant with asbestos do you think that he should be allowed to do so? It's his place. I suspect that he would not be given an occupancy permit by the health department. Tobacco smoke should be treated the same way, it's toxic. Read the Surgeon Generals report on second hand smoke. Any restaurant that wants to be a smoking restaurant should be denied an occupancy permit.

Just my opinion.

What if a smoke-o-phobe is supposed to attend a dinner (bday dinner, client meeting, etc), but it's being held at a smoking restaurant, and the smoke-o-phobe has no say in choosing or switching the restaurant? He has a dilemma.

Louisville/Jefferson County, Kentucky has an indoor smoking ban - public areas - in effect for about 4 years. At first bars and restaurants were sure they would not be able to stay open. But it all shook out and nobody went out of business because of the ban. Many restaurants found new clientele because of the smoke free environment.

I'm just sayin'.

As an adult you have to figure that one out yourself, suggestions (Parties send regrets). Client meeting, (tell the client your about your Problem.

Smoke-o-phobes should support the ban. It makes sense for all of us. Why should we continue to allow recreational drug users to kill 440,000 people a year including 50,000 of us who do not smoke their drugs. Force them to smoke their drugs in the privacy of their own homes.

Why let the addicts set the agenda? This is a public health issue not a personal rights issue. You have no right to kill other people because of your addiction.

i am just curious how many deaths are attributed each year to alcohol. the drinker the driver the innocent bystander the victim of a crime?? would be interesting to see how it compares with smoking related deaths. also, are natural cigarettes better than those loaded with toxins such as cyanide?