wages

Anita wrote, "It is not customary to tip with all people" and I understood her to be referring to all societies, not just American society. Some societies pay servers a living wage and tipping is neither expected nor proper etiquette.

I didn't understand it as all societies, to be more specific, I believe "we" were talking about the American society. Her reference was some people!

I am not a good tipper. I don't like the % thing. When I get good friendly service and a good hamburger, why should they make less. For the same work, two $8 hamburgers $16 %20= $3.20. Then you got two $30 Chicken cordon-blue with rice pilaf $60 %20=$12. They both do the same thing right? That is why the nice places like to just take it. From now on if I see that on the menu I will leave unless someone else is buying.

aschultz,
I agree with your thinking. You're absolutely right. It doesn't take any less or more steps to bring a burger from the kitchen than it does an expensive entree. Fine dining restaurants presumably offer a higher level of service, so perhaps your server is better trained and more service oriented, and therefore would command a higher "pay". We all know the best waitress in the world who works at a little cheap diner, and we've all experienced the hoity-toity fine dining waiter who acts like he is doing you a favor. Why should he make more? Well, he shouldn't, but that's probably why he works at a high end place, and as Betty mentioned, servers do get taxed based on their sales. My daughter works in a fine dining restaurant in Oregon. Not only does she make over $8.00 per hour, she usually makes over 20%. She has to claim it because it is usually on a credit card. If it's cash, she can let it slide. (still has to be a certain % of her sales). Also, if she doesn't claim it, she would not be able to qualify to buy a house, have a credit card, finance a car, etc.

By the way, I think Anita is being devil's advocate here. When I was a waitress in STT, I waited on Anita many, many times, and she is a good tipper!8-)

I guess the size of the tip is a combination of (1) the quality of the service, (2) the diner's financial situation, and (3) the diner's attitude.

When I was in STT in February, (1) I got good service; (2) I was in a position to share; and (3) I had a positive attitude. I tipped 20%.

I don't know if I will ever see any of those servers again, but I just didn't want to feel like a jerk.

Edward,
Of your 3 points, the only one that should matter is number (1) the quality of the service.

As for (2) the diner's financial situation, if you can't afford to tip, don't eat in full service restaurants. NO you don't have a right to hire me and not pay me! It's not covered by any laws, other than proper protocol, but how would you like to get paid on "commission" and have the customer refuse to pay because they can't afford it? If you can't afford it, don't buy it!

And (3), the diner's attitude...what? Did you mean if you feel like you got bad service, or do you mean maybe you don't believe in tipping? Or you're just having a bad day? This is America, and it's one of those things that visitors and newbies should adjust to immediately.

In our society the customs and courtesies on tipping are known. Kind of like saying Good Morning, Good Afternoon, Good Night, If you don't say it, a lot of teeth sucking and a very unhappy face. Just my additional 2 cents.

betty

tipping is not a requirement, it is considered good manners in many places by not every corner of the globe. what a person does is what a person does... and a customer tips at his or her own discretion.

i am a regular visitor of a number of restaurants here, and no one has ever told me that i could not eat at their establishment if i did not plan to tip. lucky me!

Oh now we are talking the Globe. Please! Different Customs Different societies. I know Europe is different, South America Different. But we were talking about the US Policy (Customs and Courtesies) on tipping. Oh and Lucky You!

My opinion. If you can't afford to tip, don't eat out. Its part of the cost of the meal and should be factored in. To not tip your waiter, even for average service is just rude and cheap. Some of them make nothing but tip money (no base hourly wages). The amount of tip... basic (18%), or heavy (20%+), is discretionary... and I don't think tipping for take out is required... but if you are waited on by a server you should tip. Sure, you can decide not to tip and no one is going to kick you out ot the restaurant... but... what comes around, goes around. Bad Karma. It says a lot more about the person you are than it does about the quality of the service.

The other night we were out to dinner at Off the Wall and the bartender was in a BAD mood. Obviously he had had a really rough night and although we had nothing to do with it, he took it out a bit on us at first... being inattentive and snarly... We let it ride and tried to not take it personally... it was his birthday and I wouldn't be happy working on my birthday either... In the end, he kinda came around and was a little better although by no means friendly. The food was great and we got our drinks... it just wasn't with the smile and happy attitude we would have like to have seen. We tipped normally and wished him a happy (happier) rest of his birthday. Sometimes ya just gotta realize we all have good and bad days. If you are a wait person.. you have to smile and be nice regardless of the day you are having. More smiles = better tips.

If you walk into a restaurant and the service doesn't seem up to snuff... you have the option of turning around and walking out. That sends a message to the management and maybe they will train their staff better.

"NO you don't have a right to hire me and not pay me!"

Diners are not employers.

Diners are not Overlords either!

My question is when and why did "standard/basic" tip go from 10% up to 18%? Does anyone know the answer to this?
I am typically a very good tipper (because there is no way I'd be a good server so I appreciate them), however, if someone gives me average or below average service I do not feel that they deserve 18%. On the other hand if the service is good I am happy to give 20% and when the service is great it goes up from there (I have gone as high as 30% for excellent service).

On the contrary...diners are indeed employers. Obviously not in the dictionary version, but if you don't realize who you are working for you probably won't be very good at your job.

Diners can't be employers if they can't hire, fire, or in most cases even choose their server.

You can definitely pick you server. Just ask for who you want, make a reservation to be sure you get them. If you, the customer, is paying them half their salary you are definitely part employer. If you don't like the service you don't go back. Business suffers. I don't like the service or the food at a place I don't go back. Its not hard. Some people like to complain, most don't. Never understood why more business don't leave comment cards and a confidential box for customers. ESPECIALLY in the islands! We're all trained to be good islanders and not to complain, to accept it.

Anyone who's lived here a certain amount of time should know and understand how hard it is for employers to fire people here. I think its a false economy on part of the employer but I understand the real fear they have because of the way the VI govt has set the system up.

diving girl it didn't go from 10% to 18%, it went from 10% to 15% to now 20% for basic tip. Does anyone actually bother to figure out 18%? That is more then a little cheap. I'm sure many still tip 15%, just like when I waited tables, some people still tipped 10%.

The difference from a place that serves burgers to cordon blue can be huge and it can also be a personal preference. Try comparing Sharky's to Bacahus. Huge difference to me, and my server at Baccahus has always been much much much better, not to mention the food. I don't mean the imply good food has to be expensive, but sometimes it is. Especially here, what do you have to do just to get truffles here??? I think Chicken Charles has great food and its cheap, service is so so, but I know I'm getting a bargain and the girls there are always nice so it's all good.

Another huge problem with restaurants at least on stx, is most waitress here have never done it before and receive little to no training. Often by owners who never had any restaurant traing stateside. Here are the most important things for every waiter/waitress to know who are new to the business.
1. Never run or hide from a problem. If theres a problem with your tables food talk to your table. Avoiding them always makes it worse.
2. Never go to the kitchen empty handed. Always bring back dirty dishes, empty glasses for refill, etc...
3. Prehaps the most important!! Do not just serve one table at a time running back and forth to the kitchen like a chicken. For example one table wants a refill, one wants to order, wants wants some more bread, one wants their check. Look at all your tables on the way to the kitchen and get everything and bring it back. Its sooooooo much more efficient.

Other then that I don't know why we have more then our fair share of bad servers.

Of course the point I am trying to make, and I thought it was pretty obvious, is that in any customer service business, we (you/they/whomever) work for the customer. They don't make your schedule, assign your duties or even sign your paycheck, but they certainly cause you to get that paycheck, and they most definitely can fire you. They may not say the words "you're fired", but all they have to do is stop buying from you. And in a restaurant, the customer has even more clout because they are paying you directly, in the form of the tip. So technically, yeah, sure they can't control your job, and you can't take a customer to the labor board if they don't tip you, but I still say without the customer there is no job, so that's pretty much the employer.

Betty,
I'd like to add two of my pet peeves.

1. Don't serve the food without silverware already on the table ,or have it with you when you bring the food.
2. Go back to the table within 2-3 minutes of serving the food. Even if you don't approach, go by so they can get your attention in case something isn't right or they have decided they want/need something, and if you are serving steaks and burgers go back as soon as they have cut into it to make sure it is cooked right. I absolutely hate when there is a group, or even 2, and one person's food isn't right, and you can't get the server's attention. That takes the fine out of fine dining!

I totally agree Juanita

Whether its fine or casual dining it should be

Greet table within 30 sec
Take drink order and suggest apps, within 2 minutes
Return with drinks and take order, answer questions
serve food, ask if anyone needs anything
return within 2 minutes and ask how everything is
refill drinks, clear plates, try to sale dessert
never never lay check down without table being clear and clean

And always upsale!!! I always tried to move better quality liquor and food. It got my ticket prices up and usually resulted in a better experience for the diner. To do this owners need to educate their servers as much as possible. It all works in their favor. The first place I worked at required us to know every single ingredient in every dish and to know all of our liquors and wines and to know what they tasted like and so on. This is a business that is still doing very well today.

Here's my peeve:

The wait staff removes the dishes at the table before everyone dining together is finished! Yikes, it makes the person left eating to feel there eating too slow or the kitchen is in need of plates.

Please wait until everyone is finished and then remove the dishes.

Oh now we are talking the Globe. Please! Different Customs Different societies. I know Europe is different, South America Different. But we were talking about the US Policy (Customs and Courtesies) on tipping. Oh and Lucky You!

as a citizen of the world, and even the united states of america, i am never required to tip unless the restaurant says so, in which case i don't eat there. it is and will remain, my choice.

many restaurants require a tip be added for large groups and i cannot do anything about that... in fact, i think this is a reasonable request and it's always disclosed in writing. so the diner still has the choice. other than that, i am simply not required to tip. it's the truth. ask anyone who owns a restaurant, and he or she will let you know. oh, folks might want me to tip. but i don't have to.

i guess my main point is that people sometimes look down on others who do not conform to their mores, and that, i don't appreciate. as a resident of the u.s. virgin islands, i see it a lot (particularly on this forum) and i consider it to be rude to impose your own way of seeing things on other people.

by the by, juanita already "outed" me as a good tipper... so my cover has been blown to all who will see.

*i will go, and troll no more!*

Bye

"*i will go, and troll no more!*"

Hey Anita -

There's no need to re-re-reiterate your position to people who have apparently decided that opinions different from their own don't merit respect. You know that among the posters on this thread, you are the least trollish! 🙂

*heheheh*

dntw8up, i have to admit, i was amusing myself there for awhile. that makes me a troll. *hangs head in shame*

i guess everyone has his or her moments! 😎

however (on a serious note), i felt that i had a point to make, and that is that it's not kind to disparage others just because they don't live exactly as you do.

however (on a serious note), i felt that i had a point to make, and that is that it's not kind to disparage others just because they don't live exactly as you do.

Come'on, everyone judges everyone. We try to be good humans and all get along but no ones perfect. Just that you feel you had to "school" adults show that you were doing some judging as well. No need to turn this into Sunday school. Still don't understand your need to defend the ones that don't. Probably because I haven't heard any logical argument. I guess we should forgive all the people that litter our beaches because we don't live as they do..... Not much of an argument. Some things are just wrong. Not tipping for good service is one of those.