Violation of Church/State separation

Yeah, I had a rum drink at Coral World yesterday when we were on STT. They started pouring at 12.

While this sort of thing infuriates me, on must choose one's battles.

Have a happy Eastre/Eostre/Easter. Enjoy the bunnies, eggs and zombie.

http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/your-delusion.htm

http://godisimaginary.com/

I will pray for you Rotorhead.

LOL!

Now if anyone wants to discuss the pope and the recent statement by father Cantalamessa comparing the backlash against the church over pederasty to antisemitism, something that the pope should know a great deal about having been a member of the Hitler youth, then I'm game.

I will pray for you Rotorhead.

I guess the proper response is "Thanks for nothing!" Since prayer has been shown in double blind scientific tests to be 100% useless, whether it be to god, Christ, Allah, Odin or Ra.

Have a happy Eastre/Eostre/Easter. Enjoy the bunnies, eggs and zombie.

http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/your-delusion.htm

http://godisimaginary.com/

Eostre/Ostara, as opposed to the Christian holiday of Easter, is one of the eight major holidays of the Pagan calendar, and while those of us who celebrate it appreciate the good wishes, it was back in March. If the government of the VI wants to give me a day off for a religious holiday I don't even celebrate, I'll take it. It's when people force their religious beliefs (or lack thereof) on me that I get annoyed.

I love the double blind scientific tests. They are 100% whatever the researcher wants them to be.:-o

rotorhead,

With all due respect you must reread the first amendment. The first line says "congress shall make no law...." any state or territory having a holiday (a derivation of Holy Day) any time they want would have nothing to do with the U.S. congress making a law.The concept of a wall of separation between Church and State is to protect the Church from the State. Read Jefferson's letter to the Danbury Baptists.

After we finish discussing politics and religion, can we please discuss sex? That would complete the triad of taboo talk!

Ooh ooh -- and you simply must ask all the women on here how old we are and how much we weigh!!! 😀

STX Bob....... We finally agree on something 🙂 Now you can start the thread and we'll all let you go first.. LOL(tu)

Ooh ooh -- and you simply must ask all the women on here how old we are and how much we weigh!!! 😀

And ask all of us when we're due... 😮

rotorhead,

With all due respect you must reread the first amendment. The first line says "congress shall make no law...." any state or territory having a holiday (a derivation of Holy Day) any time they want would have nothing to do with the U.S. congress making a law.The concept of a wall of separation between Church and State is to protect the Church from the State. Read Jefferson's letter to the Danbury Baptists.

This is an understandable reading of the United States Constitution. It is, however, well established that the prohibitions contained in the Bill of Rights refer not only to the United States Congress but also to every level of government. Therefore, a school board that requires the reading of The Holy Bible at the start of each school day is found to be in violation of the United States Constitution. Similarly, states with "separate but equal" school systems, and those banning mixed race marriages, are also found to violate the United States Constitution.

I think the states have a lot of latitude. In Louisville, the Friday before the Kentucky Derby is always a public school (and most private schools) holiday. Too much traffic, too many kids just didn't show up. So the school board just declares it a teachers in-service day. I'm sure there are other examples of school day's off for local events, both religious and secular.

Also, as Edward mentioned, laws are challenged and changed all the time, the blue laws of the south have been mentioned, but it takes someone who cares enough to begin the process.

New Orleans and the surrounding areas give just about everyone (school, government workers, private companies) Mardi Gras and the surrounding days off. It's like Christmas everywhere else. Hardly anyone goes to work. And there's no holding back on alcohol during that time!

Almost every day in the Catholic calendar is a saint's day -- so are they all religious holidays? Easter, yes, Christmas, yes. Good Friday, not a holiday as I define holiday.

Well, it might not be your definition, but the reason it's a holiday is religious in nature, not secular. There would be no day off if it weren't for Christianity. And it's supposed to be out of respect for Christians and Christianity that no alcohol 16%+ is served between 9 a.m. and 4 p.m. here, and that the U.S. stock market is closed, and, and, and. Because it's a majority religion, people think there's nothing wrong with that, but it's every bit as much a violation of the Constitution as forcing public school kids to say "under God" every morning.

So long as our leaders are theists, there will never be separation of church and state.

The more you separate church and state, the more violent and lawless the land becomes. the more we seek solace in alcohol and drugs. We have lost our moral underpinnings and are fast turning into a socialistic state. I think we will find we have not done ourselves a favor. I am not so sure this is a good thing. But you "progressives" go ahead and do what you will do. That amendment was added precisely to keep you from doing what you are doing, but you have twisted it just like the pigs in Animal Farm. We were not supposed to establish any religion including secularism or atheism as opposed to any other religion. We were supposed to accept that "out of many, One" Our strength has always been in our diversity, not in lockstep sameness. Let us enjoy those who enjoy Easter; let us have peace with those who celebrate Ramadan (as much as they will let us) let us have days of peace for those who just enjoy the earth. Let us NOT limit ourselves!

The establishment clause of the First Amendment has been interpreted by the courts to mean that the government (federal, state and local) cannot show preference to one religion over others. This means that just because the majority of citizens in an area are Christians the government is not allowed to set aside Christian holidays as government holidays. This would not be fair to Muslims, Buddhists or atheists. This does not mean that Christians are not able to celebrate their holidays, it just means that they should have to take personal time off just like Muslims do for their holy days. The government should not show preference to Christians!

I sighted a case here http://ffrf.org/uploads/legal/goodfridayfull.pdf where the courts ruled just that way. The only place where Good Friday is still a holiday are places where no one has challenged them in court or where Christians have disingenuously argued that Good Friday is not a christian holiday but is a secular holiday. How dishonest is that? It is the same argument that Christians used for Christmas, how many Christians really feel that Christmas is not a christian holiday?

As for the effectiveness of prayer. Can you explain why god doesn't like amputees? People talk about the healing power of prayer, prayer cures cancer, heart disease, etc. Many diseases where the diagnosis is fuzzy and the cause of the cure is unclear. When was the last time you heard of an amputee growing a new limb? Is god not powerful enough to cure amputees? Or does god have something against amputees?

http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/your-delusion.htm

And finally, I do not think that any topic is off limits for discussion, politics, religion or sex. We do not have blasphemy laws in the US as they now do in Ireland. Any topic is open for discussion in our free society. These are just ideas, and how can you express your opinion of these very important and interesting topics if you are not allowed to discuss them?

One of my former bosses/mentors once told me. "If you don't have an opinion on the topic under discussion then why are you bothering to participate in the discussion at all? And if you do have an opinion then Step Up, State your opinion and be prepared to defend it!" People might disagree with me (a lot of people disagree with me) but in general I have given a great deal of thought to my opinions and am prepared to defend them in a discussion.

I personally think that religion is a throwback to our primitive past where so many things were beyond our understanding that we had to invent sky-god(s) to explain the workings of the natural world. Hopefully as we mature intellectually we will be able to put superstition and mysticism behind us just as children outgrow Santa Claus. Read the section on delusion at the above website.

"And the day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter. "
-Thomas Jefferson, Letter to John Adams, April 11, 1823

With that said, how does me having that opinion take anything away from you? I think that people should be able to believe in any supernatural beings that they wish but they should not be able to force their beliefs on others. Expressing opinions on a forum is not forcing your beliefs on others. Having governments enact laws which give preference to your beliefs is forcing your beliefs on others.

Oh dear, I guess Rotor saw another chance to try to get the Christians all riled up since it's Easter. Yaawwn.

Have a very happy Easter to all the Christians on the island! Such a beautiful place to celebrate.:)

Paula.....(tu)

A very happy Easter to you Paula ! God Bless.

I had a great time going to church and then going with my family out to the beach. It was a really refreshing day. Rotor~ I hope you had a good day, too. I am glad you have your opinions and in this free country we're still allowed to have them (so long as they are politically correct for the most part) We started out as a quasi christian nation and a lot of holidays got written into the law. I don't see why it is so very necessary to try to ruin that. My point was that every time you strip our nation of some of its historical culture, we seem to turn out the worse for it. Let's add holidays, not subtract them!

Today was a great day. It was all about family, Christian and non Christian alike. Everyone had the day off. They camped, went out on their boats, cleaned,swimmed, worked in the yard and my neighborhood is still having a party. I hear them all laughing and playing music. Smiles were the order of the day. What is there to complain about. Everyone was smiling and happy. I loved seeing all the people dressed in their Sunday best. Who cares why we had a holiday. Today was wonderful. Roto, I hope you enjoyed your day as well and loved all the happy people.

...We started out as a quasi christian nation...

Not true. Article 11 of the Treaty of Tripoli, ratified by the U.S. Senate in 1797, states: "As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion..."

An interesting read on the matter can be found here: http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/feature/2009/04/14/christian_nation

"Religious conservatives argue the Founding Fathers intended the United States to be a Judeo-Christian country. But President Obama is right when he says it isn't..."