VI included in Health Care Bill

{quote]I must say that I am shocked by how many freedom loving individuals are on the board. From reading the local press I thought that most people in the VI were for big government.

Most people in the VI are for big government, and they tend to have been born here. Folks who move here and stay tend to be against big government. There are of course exceptions, which is why I said most.

One thing that annoys me about this debate or any hot button issue is that people don't seem to be able to acknowledge that there may be reasonable, well informed, people on both sides. Are you so sure you are right that you can't even entertain the idea that you might be wrong?

I also go crazy with statements like "everybody wants" or "nobody wants". Truth is the country is usually split 55-45 or so on any given issue.

This was also part of the health care bill: Students will be able to get student loans directly from the gov't, instead of going through middlemen banks, resulting in more favorable loan terms. Good for students, but bad for banks and bank jobs. It also reduces the federal defecit.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/mcclatchy/20100326/pl_mcclatchy/3462278

QUOTE
STUDENT LOANS SHOULD BE SIMPLER UNDER NEW LAW

By David Lightman, McClatchy Newspapers David Lightman, Mcclatchy Newspapers – Fri Mar 26, 5:40 pm ET
WASHINGTON

Students and their families should find the student loan process simpler, and lower-income students should find more financial help, under the sweeping changes tucked into the health-care legislation that Congress passed this week.

The measure, aimed at taking banks and other private lenders out of the lucrative federal subsidized student-loan market, also would lessen the burden for some graduates as they pay back their loans.

Currently, certain students with low incomes and large loan balances don't have to pay more than 15 percent of their incomes each month on the loans. The new law will lower that to 10 percent.

The changes, which are projected to save the government $61 billion over 10 years, also will forgive the loans after 20 years of repayment, down from 25 currently.

Until now, there have been two federal loan programs. Under one, the government makes loans directly to students, a program that now will be expanded. The other is the Federal Family Education Loan Program. Under it, banks and lenders make loans that the federal government guarantees or insures. It will end July 1 .

The new law still will permit private lending institutions to make private loans, but the federal government won't subsidize them.

"This is a big deal. We've known for decades that subsidies are unnecessary and expensive, and special interest lobbying has kept these provisions on the books," said Pedro de la Torre , advocacy senior associate at the Center for American Progress , a liberal research group.

Richard Hunt , the president of the Consumer Bankers Association , said in a letter to Congress , however, that the bill would have "major negative consequences for American higher education."

Sallie Mae , a major student loan provider, warned that it would be forced to reduce its national work force, now about 8,600 people, by 2,500.

"The student loan provisions buried in the health care legislation intentionally eliminate private sector jobs and student services at a time when our country can least afford to lose them," Sallie Mae spokeswoman Martha Holler said. "Reform did not have to be an either-or proposition; Congress could have achieved its reform and savings goals in a way that helped both students and workers, but instead chose not to."

Budget rules adopted last year allowed the loan provisions to be included in the health care package, and Sen. Tom Harkin , D- Iowa , defended the changes.

Why continue to give "a subsidy to the big banks in this country?" he asked. "We take that money and give it to students in Pell grants."

The bill expands the grants, which go to lower-income students. It provides $13.5 billion for help to pay for projected shortfalls in the program for the next two fiscal years, and increases the maximum award to $5,550 next year and nearly $6,000 by 2017. The current level is $5,350 .

The bill also takes money saved from the middleman subsidies and directs it to a series of other education-related programs. Historically black colleges and universities, Hispanic-serving institutions and tribal colleges would get a $2.55 billion .

Another $2 billion would be spent over four years for community college programs that help unemployed people, while $750 million would go to a program that helps increase the number of low-income students prepared to enter college.

A total of $10 billion from the money that's saved would be used to reduce the federal budget deficit.
UNQUOTE

This same congress gave us the credit card reform bill, gave them plenty of time to think of new ways to screw the consumer, and comply with the new law. The same Major banks we gave money to bail them out, increased interest rates not only on new purchases but on old balances. Increased the minimum monthly payment from 3% to 5%.:-o I feel real good about this new student loan program and the anticipated defaults on payments.

Now this congress is going to give "the underwater mortgage relief package". They are going to give the banks tax credits that will participate and let the people who couldn't afford the house in the first place stay in them at a reduced price and lower interest rates. It's estimated that 4 million homes will be in this pool and that's today's estimate.:S Did this administration find a rich uncle? This is a done deal BTW.

All this does is give the government more power: who gets loans and for how much. Be careful which propaganda institution you choose to attend. If they teach freedom, you might not get a loan. Choose a bastion of socialist excess and you're bound to get a full ride. This is a dangerous thing, not a good thing.
This is one area where proper regulation, not government takeover would have fit better.
Big Brother was not a Good Thing as I recall.

Looks to me that this discussion has been dominated by the group who seem to be influenced by the 'socialist take over conspiracy talkers'. I will return when rational, common sense is once again established.

All this hysteria about a socialist government take over is way out of line and not true. It sounds a lot like the "McCarthyism" of the 50s. I hope sanity prevails and our President is allowed to do the good job he is capable of doing.

Bye Misinformation maybe by the time you come back we will have free Internet service*-)

from Wikipedia: Socialism is not a concrete philosophy of fixed doctrine and programme; its branches advocate a degree of social interventionism and economic rationalisation (usually in the form of economic planning), but sometimes oppose each other. A dividing feature of the socialist movement is the split between reformists and revolutionaries on how a socialist economy should be established. Some socialists advocate complete nationalisation of the means of production, distribution, and exchange; others advocate state control of capital within the framework of a market economy.

Since we have bought out banking, the car companies, and the health care industry, are moving towards "Cap and Trade" in energy production, have taken over education and rewritten history to the extent that the religious/moral basis for much of what happened in our history has basically disappeared from the history books, I fail to see how anyone could possibly think we were NOT moving towards socialism. The media and our educators have worked hard to dumb down America so we will be happy just

Here's more from Wikipedia:

"Modern social democrats propose selective nationalisation of key national industries in mixed economies, while maintaining private ownership of capital and private business enterprise. (In the 19th and early 20th century the term was used to refer to those who wanted to completely replace capitalism with socialism through reform.) Modern social democrats also promote tax-funded welfare programs and regulation of markets; many, particularly in European welfare states, refer to themselves as socialists, despite holding pro-capitalist viewpoints, thus adding ambiguity to the meaning of the term "socialist""

Will someone please, just give me the money to open my darn bar. I don't really want to work for it,I would rather have Uncle Sam send in an IRS Agent to run it for me,pay all the taxes and pay all of my required health care. With this new concept I have adopted I should be able to live a carefree lifestyle while living on St Croix.

This is all a great benefit to me !!!!!!!!! I can basically screw off for the rest of my life,well at least until my marker is due,then I might as well be working on the Chain Gang. I read somewhere that I have these lucky numbers and that I should be hitting the Lottery soon. Oh silly me, that was a Fortune cookie I ate.

LIKE I HAVE SAID IN THE PAST,WAKE UP OR BE RULED. You can always work for me if you like. I offer pre training on the subject at hand,I can rule with an Iron fist,stick my boot up your ass for looking at me cross eyed and always let you know you will never be in my league. All you have to really do is look to the History of our country,oh but I'll bet you don't live in the past do you? No one in the History of this Country has ever came close to spending what this idiotic Congress and President have already spent and they are still spending. Maybe,just maybe, I will be gone when the marker is due.

You can always work for me if you like.

Chockman, I love your enthusiasm for the establishment you plan to open. You sound like someone who will take a lot of pride in running a first class operation. I can work for someone like that, hopefully feeling the same pride in being an employee. Perhaps when I relocate in the future we will connect. I am intelligent, very friendly, caring, and a team player who pays a lot of attention to details. the little things that will give the customers a pleasant experience. Just curious....what kind of benefit package will you be offering your employees?

We have some different ideas for the Employee's benefits. Hopefully we can establish a tight,fun, friendly establishment. It will not be an upscale,white linen place. As of now we are an open air venue that likes Rock and Blues as well as Country. You are correct in the fact that the details are what we need,all the little things come together to complete the package.

If I can not open a place,where the employee's want to come to work,I have screwed up somewhere. As far as Health care is concerned,I am throwing mine in the trash after 20 years and doing my own thing. I guess we will let the Gov dictate what we need,when we need it and who will pay for it. If, I have to jack the price's up to high to cover the cost of health care,we're out of business. I have no problem sharing the profits with the employee's that earn it. I want you the employee,to want to come to work. I like things a certain way and I am open to suggestions. I am easy to get along with and don't really fly off the handle at people,just because I am having a bad day. We'll bust our ass and laugh at each other to make it all come together.

We are a little fish in a big pond,in other words,we will pull our own weight. No one but us is coming to our rescue. There will not be a Federal bail out for us,they saved that for the people with all the money. This operation is more like a Texas hold em hand,I'M all in. I am shooting for August or Sept to open,it should be a little slow at that time so maybe we will have a little time to settle in. Keep your eye's and ears open. We will be behind Rowdy Joe's,who by the way cooks up some really good food. I'll start looking for people in July.

Chris Hockman

I know you want to serve really good high quality bar type food, which is enjoyed by so many, including me. It's especially enjoyable as it usually offers an affordable night out. Give me a good fresh cheeseburger and beer, throw in some blues and I'm in heaven.

I guess you're right that raising prices to offer health care benefits for your employees would really pose a risk to your business. But then again, to run a good business, you need healthy employees who are able to maintain their good health on the wages/tips of a restaurant employee. The way it's been in the past, I'd never be able to afford health insurance living on a restaurant employee's income.

Hmmm.......having affordable health care available through the new health care reform might be just the ticket that allows me to have a job in a great place like yours, going to work without having to worry about how to pay for a doctor visit or medication if needed. And because I'd be able to afford health insurance I'm sure I'd miss a lot fewer days of work. Yup, I could take advantage of preventative care as well as treat anything that might come up, making me a much better, healthier employee. The extra bonus is that it will allow you, the small business owner, to have the means to actually earn a living from a well run quality establishment. Looks like it's a win/win for everyone.

Gerie,your barking up the wrong tree. It is a high employee turn over, minimum wage job. Maybe more pay if they earn it. My intent is to stay small,that way It won't kill me when I have to let an employee go for missing to much work. I am a very understanding person but lets face it,you want paid sick leave,you better get the job I am walking away from. No slack for a screw off,and no health care. I won't have it and I am willing to walk away form it. What makes you or anyone else so special ? A socialist attitude ? Or are you willing to bet your life on the things you mention, as I am ? Say what you mean and mean what you say,no double speak to try and prove a point just get to it and don't waste my time. I'll put my name where my mouth is,will you ?

Chris Hockman

The debate has gone on all week, and is getting repetitive, so I suspect not much more will come out of it. Therefore, as a supporter of Obamacare, I would like to summarize the arguments from the opposing side, to show that I have been listening, and that I understand your points of view.

Opposers of Obamacare say that it’s bad because of one or more the following:
- Socialism is bad, everybody should pay their own way
- Government is bad, corrupt, or self-serving, etc.
- Government has already over-regulated healthcare, which led to the current high prices
- It will lead to more government control later
- Regulation is bad, free market competition is good
- It wasn't the will of the people
- It's unconstitutional
- It’s too expensive, taxes will go up

Did I miss anything?

Does anybody from the opposing side want to summarize the arguments of the supporters? And not in a mean-spirited way, please. I wrote the above list as nicely as possible. Also, please don’t just write the opposite of the entire list above! We supporters did present some other arguments.

Thanks.

Please complete the following:

Supporters of Obamacare say that it’s good because…

Bob that is an interesting perspective on being against it. I hope you haven't taken anything personally that I may have written,we just disagree on the subject and BIG BROTHER in general. I have not researched the subject nearly as in depth as you have. I do however come from 24 years of experience in dealing directly with the Gov. See you all soon.

by the way, the president signed a jobs bill to give tax incentives to businesses to hire those who have been out of work for a long time. did this on march 18th. nobody noticed it, but he is multi-tasking. i prefer not to let the pundits tell me what's happening, because you only get their opinion and their slant. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/03/17/AR2010031703537.html

and i don't know why people keep calling it obamacare, perhaps because he is the only one able to get the rock up the hill. the republicans created a bill very similar to this one, back when the clintons were trying to bring about health care reform. they did this to counteract what the clintons were doing. what's astonishing is that now they are so vehemently against it... http://www.kaiserhealthnews.org/Stories/2010/February/23/GOP-1993-health-reform-bill.aspx

i guess if it's not their idea, they want no parts of it, but i thought that all people elected to government would want what's best for people. there are so many fallacies floating around about this thing. here are the main differences: http://www.kaiserhealthnews.org/Graphics/2010/022310-Bill-Comparison.aspx

Anita. The elected officials claim to want what is best for the people.Usually they do what is best for them.

There is a post on page 3 actually putting it in a nutshell. I started to "quote" it, to bump it, but decided it was not my place. I will say, I don't believe this is simply Republican vs. Democrat. I believe there is too much left, right, religion, greed, good ol' boy, corruption, me me me and a whole lot more at work here. I dislike fox news, and I am in favor of health care reform. (I just realized that I was equating my beliefs, or lack thereof, with a news channel, and not in a good way!)

STxbob, I'll take a closer look tomorrow, but right off the top you need to add that
1)the government has never been good at running anything
2)that they overrun initial cost estimates by huge amounts
3)that they want power and control of our lives
....e.g. The goverment has never demonstrated it could run anything of this magnitude successfully so why would we hand this over to a failure ? Would you hire a demonstrated failure to run your business?
4) i don't accept the premise that other countries have good health care. Well maybe that is subjective. Is good, good enough? We have the best now. Why would we want to lower our standards. Why do you think relatives of the leaders of other countries come here for their care? because it is the best. Period. After "Obamacare" - named as such Anita, to feed his massive ego....our medical care will erode significantly. Talk to me in 10 years, although I take no joy in I told you so's.

Another objection...if the plan is so good, why does congress and the executive branch exempt themselves?

Well, STXBob..You tried, but you had to know!

A Davis,
That's a double edge sword you speak of!

@ chockman: sometimes the wrong thing happens for the right reason. this is like stumbling into the kitchen of your favorite restaurant and you end up seeing people putting things on plates that had been on the floor, or even worse, on someone's plate before yours... yuk. business as usual. they've been doing these things for so long they think it's "normal"... the american public is the biggest lobby out there, and no matter how much $ a politician gets from special interest groups, they cannot buy every single vote. they sure as h3ll cannot buy mine, and my mind is not for sale either. what they do, is rely on some people to be slack-jawed absorbers of any incendiary bit of info masquerading as fact. i am hopeful that we are moving forward in our civic age.

@ lizard: nothing worse than being shot by your own cannon, or hoisted by your own petard! http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/hoist%20by%20your%20own%20petard.html