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You have to look at it like this, on an island, any island, your chances of being a victim of a crime is a greater than if you lived in the states just due to the size comparison. Also, when tourism is involved, the crime rate is magnified. My parents home was burglarized 3 times in 2 years on St. Thomas but never once in the states. My home was burglarized twice in St. Thomas and never in the states and this was back in the early 70's.
Mdoramike
I have to disagree with you on this one!
We lived in the Grenadines on a smaller island than St. Croix and not one murder in 8 years! And, they had much more tourism than St. Croix....not the Virgin Island, only St. Croix. We also owned a house for 27 years in a small town in the States with the same population as St. Croix and there were zero murders in the town during our entire ownership.
Then again in comparison, our home is located in a small town of about 15,000 residents and we have had 4 murders in the past 5 years. There are also places here that I wouldn't go after dark.
Posted : December 7, 2013 12:46 pm
if I may add also about going out after dark: Some of that is when you have to be at work at 6 or 7 am by the time it gets dark you are just plain too pooped to go out. In all the years I've lived here I have never felt unsafe but heck we are in bed by 8 pm! i do live at the Reef and the string of robberies we had was an inside job and we fired the perps right away. I live across the street from the villa the keys and car were stolen, that person was a renter and was very careless. no it shouldn't have happened but a little common sense goes a long ways.
Posted : December 7, 2013 4:39 pm
One thing I notice a lot on St. Croix is that people often blame the victims, instead of the criminals. It becomes, oh, he should have known better/not been so careless/not hung out with that crowd, etc. People are blamed for not locking their homes properly, for being in the wrong place at the wrong time, or simply for being friends with the wrong people. I've even heard crimes justified because, oh, that guy is a jerk (generally a stronger cuss word) and he had it coming to him!
And then the "us vs them" thing - it's okay to commit a crime against someone simply because they are judged as having the wrong attitude, or not adequately being members of the community? This is crazy talk. Sure some people can be curmudgeons - every community has them - but that doesn't justify crimes being committed against them!
Crime is WRONG. I do think that it takes a community to drive out crime, not just a police force. But this blaming the victim thing has to stop. We've lost some really great people on St. Croix due to crime, and it's pathetic the way their deaths have been "justified" by some.
Posted : December 7, 2013 4:48 pm
Well said!
Posted : December 7, 2013 7:19 pm
I think it is less about blaming the victim and more about warning people about activities/behaviors that are dangerous. Should you be able to walk anywhere, anytime without worry? In a perfect world yes - but you can't. So it's good to tell newcomers the kind of risky behavior that can get you into trouble. Of course much of our advice pertains to EVERY locale, not just STX.
Some of you may remember TRW, who often posted here.
Posted : December 7, 2013 10:38 pm
Two different things - yes, people are responsible for their own safety and should use common sense regardless of where they live. But the condition where victims are blamed for their own victimization on St. Croix really needs to change, especially crimes that happen despite the best efforts of the individual to take responsibility for their safety and the safety of others. There's no excuse for someone being targeted for any reason.
Posted : December 7, 2013 10:59 pm
juliekay, you are correct. i think the majority of us do this too
Posted : December 8, 2013 11:10 am
TRW owed drug $$ and was trying to make another deal.
Not that it justifies his death....
Posted : December 8, 2013 1:29 pm
I don't think the victim should be blamed either. But when I lived by Detroit I didn't do risky things and I don't here. I wish there was no crime. But one time I had some guests leave their cameras, phones, and a wallet full of cash on the front seat of their car while they were snorkeling then were mad they got stolen!
Posted : December 8, 2013 1:41 pm
Re TRW: He illustrates my point exactly. The victim should not be blamed for the crime. But stupid or criminal behavior has to be recognized as a contributing factor to some (but certainly not all) crimes.
Posted : December 8, 2013 2:16 pm
And don't forget, while crime happens everywhere and we should always be careful, you are 10 times more likely to get murdered here than in your average place in the states. You are twice as likely to be murdered here as in the worse place in the states.
And I can personally testify that you don't have to leave your house, they will come after you in your home.
Posted : December 8, 2013 4:49 pm
Sunny Caribe writes in response to Rotorhead: "I will never understand why a significant percentage of the 'continental' population, generally people of means who could live richly anywhere on the planet, yet who invest comparatively little here, choose to stay in the Virgin Islands and huddle under a cloud of fear and slag off our home at every opportunity"
This is a somewhat callous and rather biased condemnation of "continentals"...
Consider what you have written. You disparage a "significant percentage of continentals" for choosing to live here...saying that they invest comparatively little here? Really? Most could choose to live elsewhere..in locales with lower crime, better schools, more viable economies, etc... but these "continentals" have chosen to call St Croix "home"...because they love the people, the natural beauty...many reasons...and many of them contribute generously to the good of this island.
SunnyCaribe...just curious. If you feel many "continentals" "invest comparatively little here"...please tell all the people on this board...
what is the level of investment necessary to be considered a worthy Crucian?
SunnyCaribe...please consider the following:
Rotorhead and his wife have chosen to continue living on St Croix even after their horrific experience.
They volunteer their time for charities on St Croix...and they help raise funds for so many local organizations...
Their biggest investment? Generously investing in the future of St Croix...never expecting anything in return...not even recognition.
Many people on St Croix...locals and "continentals" alike...would agree that Mr. and Mrs. "Rotorhead'" are great Crucians!
We need need more Crucians like them...
Posted : December 9, 2013 5:46 am
SunnyCaribe...just curious. If you feel many "continentals" "invest comparatively little here"...please tell all the people on this board...
what is the level of investment necessary to be considered a worthy Crucian?
The true answer is "it's never enough". There are some "Crucians" that will never accept any "continental" no matter how long they are here or how much they spend. That is a basis for some of the crime here. The young population thinks it's OK to steal from "them" and that is a learned attitude.
Posted : December 9, 2013 11:15 am
I think the "them vs. us" mentality is one that is held by both "local" and "transplant". You see it every time someone starts a sentence with the word "they", as in "They have no work ethic" or "they think they're better than us",
Posted : December 9, 2013 11:36 am
I think the "them vs. us" mentality is one that is held by both "local" and "transplant". You see it every time someone starts a sentence with the word "they", as in "They have no work ethic" or "they think they're better than us",
I agre with this. I've been lucky enough to not have to deal with much of that, being in the types of places I've worked, like the Lost Dog, where it's all "us" and now the farming community, with is a serious rock here on island.
Posted : December 9, 2013 4:53 pm
I think the "them vs. us" mentality is one that is held by both "local" and "transplant". You see it every time someone starts a sentence with the word "they", as in "They have no work ethic" or "they think they're better than us",
Totally agree. It's still not a reason to target someone for crime, though. I like to think (like Jamison) that attitude is slowly dissolving away...
Posted : December 9, 2013 5:00 pm
No one is 'blaming the victim', least of all me, and it takes a certain degree of willful ignorance to read that into what I wrote earlier. Neither of the two murders that rotor introduced into the discussion are mitigated in any way by the circumstances, whatever they were. But if we all agree that the justice system in the territory needs to be reformed, that people should be held accountable for their actions, then I believe the same holds true for everyone, and I don't think it's reasonable to ask the culture here to make any changes that we as individuals are unwilling to make. As I said, I've intervened in criminal activity, I've been shot at, I've testified (more times than I'd like) despite threats. These are choices I've made, and I believe they are the right choices, but that belief does not absolve me of any responsibility if, one day, these actions have adverse consequences.
As for the 'us-vs-them' debate, the two murders under discussion are a perfect example. Tragic, of course. Frightening, of course. But both occurred to a white continental person. That touches close to home for any of us who are likewise white continentals. But a comparatively small percentage of the murders here involve a white continental person. Can each of you honestly claim an equal degree of moral outrage over the murder of a Crucian? Do you know any Crucians who have been murdered or who have buried family members as a result of murder? If not, can you at least name any? And, most importantly, can you even read this paragraph without thinking to yourself, "Yes, but...drugs and gangs...local punks...culture of violence....and so on?" In other words, can you avoid "blaming the victim" yourselves? These forum discussions are full of that sort of double standard, and I myself have been every bit as guilty at times of harboring that double standard over the years as anyone else. But I've seen past that, and it is my hope to shine a light on it and help others see past that type of thinking too.
Finally, someone above suggested that the Grenadines are a peaceful crime-free place. To that I can only say that there was a fundraiser this past weekend for a lady who was brutally hacked with a machete and left for dead by a group of young kids in the Grenadines. Violent yacht crimes are crippling the tourist economy and reputation of SVG. Fundraiser website
Posted : December 9, 2013 6:36 pm
Can each of you honestly claim an equal degree of moral outrage over the murder of a Crucian? Do you know any Crucians who have been murdered or who have buried family members as a result of murder? If not, can you at least name any? And, most importantly, can you even read this paragraph without thinking to yourself, "Yes, but...drugs and gangs...local punks...culture of violence....and so on?" In other words, can you avoid "blaming the victim" yourselves?
Yes. I have a number of Crucian friends also affected by murder and have friends who have buried family members - I'm trying very hard to not be offended by this statement. I know others on this forum that experience the same. Just because people talk on this forum about the people they most know as their neighbors being affected by murders does not mean that we don't know or care about ALL Crucians of all skin colors and histories. And while there are circumstances in each event drugs and gangs are not the immediate assumption either - lots of kids have been lost for absolutely meaningless and stupid reasons - kids that are the children of my friends and neighbors.
"Us vs. Them" is perpetuated by assumptions on both sides. There is no polarity, it's all shades of grey. This is what I mean about jumping to conclusions earlier - judging a person on the basis of a few statements. You don't know me, I don't know you, and while I am friends with several people on this board, I would not claim to know their inner thoughts and assumptions either. And you know what they say about when someone assumes. 😉
And I'm not saying you advocate violence based on "Us vs. Them," SunnyCaribe - but you know that it is often the basis for crime. I wasn't talking about you in particular.
Posted : December 9, 2013 6:53 pm
But wait, how can you say this....
Yes. I have a number of Crucian friends also affected by murder and have friends who have buried family members - I'm trying very hard to not be offended by this statement. I know others on this forum that experience the same. Just because people talk on this forum about the people they most know as their neighbors being affected by murders does not mean that we don't know or care about ALL Crucians of all skin colors and histories.
and then go on to say this...
... I would not claim to know their inner thoughts and assumptions either. And you know what they say about when someone assumes.
You cannot claim on the one hand to be the spokesperson for a significant subset of this forum and then disavow all knowledge of those same people's thoughts and assumptions on the other hand, no matter how much we all might wish your assumption were true.
And isn't this...
...And while there are circumstances in each event drugs and gangs are not the immediate assumption either - lots of kids have been lost for absolutely meaningless and stupid reasons - kids that are the children of my friends and neighbors.
...exactly the same statement you took such exception to when I said it?
Double standards are a big part of the problem and rooting them out starts at home.
Posted : December 9, 2013 7:20 pm
I was talking to a friend that was on STJ recently and from what I understand the racial divide there is massive. You go to a bar and it's all one color. I've heard STT is pretty fair about it and everyone gets along. Here, on STX, it's black west, white east and mixed in the middle, but everyone gets along for the most part. Being white gets pointed out, like someones color of their car. No big deal. I gave up everything and said goodbye to everyone when I came here. Am I Crucian? No, but I live here and I'm not leaving and everything I have is invested in this island and I love it.
Posted : December 10, 2013 2:06 am
Here, on STX, it's black west, white east and mixed in the middle.
This is absolutely not true. I live east and I am the only white person in my entire neighborhood. The idea that east is where "all the white people live" is ridiculous and is constantly being perpetuated. I am not sure why people always say this. I know many white people who live west as well. I also know many black people who live in Judith's Fancy which people always say is a white neighborhood. It is true that there pockets of people of the same color in certain areas but it is no where near the divide people make it out to be.
Posted : December 10, 2013 11:09 am
that statement could have something to do with one of the senators stating that everyone who lives out east is kkk and eats steak and lobster for dinner every night
Posted : December 10, 2013 12:06 pm
Here, on STX, it's black west, white east and mixed in the middle.
This is absolutely not true. I live east and I am the only white person in my entire neighborhood. The idea that east is where "all the white people live" is ridiculous and is constantly being perpetuated. I am not sure why people always say this. I know many white people who live west as well. I also know many black people who live in Judith's Fancy which people always say is a white neighborhood. It is true that there pockets of people of the same color in certain areas but it is no where near the divide people make it out to be.
It was a pretty broad generalization, but I find it pretty true. It certainly wasn't an absolute statement and was said after a little too much rum probably, but I find it to be true. STX really doesn't have much racial tension. At least I don't feel it often. For example, the farm I am on was founded by a white guy. We have people born here or down island, black white, whatever, but I've still refered to it as the white boy farm to explain which one it is and it helped people know which one I'm talking about.
Posted : December 10, 2013 12:22 pm
Jamison,
Also absolutely not true:
"I was talking to a friend that was on STJ recently and from what I understand the racial divide there is massive. You go to a bar and it's all one color."
Some of the more 'tourist-trap' type places tend to be more white... but as a result of being 95% tourist-filled, not because of some massive racial divide. For the people who live here, full-time, there is no racial divide. We live in the same neighborhoods, work in the same jobs, shop at the same places, and have the same difficulties in paying WAPA and schooling our children. If there's any massive divide, it's between the weekly tourist population and the full-timers, and a few days on island is not going to make that distinction clear.
You can paint the picture in your head however you want, based on a few short visits or "what my buddy said" statements, but having lived on 2/3 of the islands and spending months on the third, I'd have to say most of the poster's opinions of the "other" islands are simply ridiculous.
Posted : December 10, 2013 2:12 pm
Jamison,
Also absolutely not true:
"I was talking to a friend that was on STJ recently and from what I understand the racial divide there is massive. You go to a bar and it's all one color."Some of the more 'tourist-trap' type places tend to be more white... but as a result of being 95% tourist-filled, not because of some massive racial divide. For the people who live here, full-time, there is no racial divide. We live in the same neighborhoods, work in the same jobs, shop at the same places, and have the same difficulties in paying WAPA and schooling our children. If there's any massive divide, it's between the weekly tourist population and the full-timers, and a few days on island is not going to make that distinction clear.
You can paint the picture in your head however you want, based on a few short visits or "what my buddy said" statements, but having lived on 2/3 of the islands and spending months on the third, I'd have to say most of the poster's opinions of the "other" islands are simply ridiculous.
Yeah, I really have no opinion about it, because I've never been to STJ and only briefly on STT. I only know STX and how it is here.
Posted : December 10, 2013 2:34 pm
