Smoking ban in effect; enforcement is delayed

I for one want to ban drinking in bars and restaurants. Drinkers are very annoying to non drinkers. They get loud, obnoixious, and are a threat to their health as they are far more likely to start fights and get violent than non drinkers.

And I don't care if you don't agree, once we get a majority of people to feel as I do your rights won't matter in this tyranny of the majority we call democracy that is now unchecked despite founding documents to the contrary.

Respecting the rights of people to run a private business as they see fit is so passe...stop being so naive everyone, this is the Socialist States of America now and if the majority can be found you will conform!

Sean

Sadly you are correct Stiphy. I long for the freedom of my childhood. I will tell my grandchildren about the days we were free.

How right you are! Oh for the days when property owners could have crumbling asbestos on the ceilings, dump toxic waste on the ground, crowd in as many people as possible, not have those unsightly fire extingushiers sitting around, and didn't have to have staff wash their hands or wear hair nets or hats when preparing the food!

Sean I agree with you. I want to ban drnking too. I am tired of being the DD. I want someone else to do it. If we ban drinking in the bars and restaurants, I will not have to do it as often as i do now. They are loud and obnoxious and rude and they start fights and they are always thinking they can "hit" on people. UGH UGH UGH. :@)
Loved your post!

Right Terry, the US was an utter disaster of a country until government saved us from ourselves over the last 100 years! Every business imaginable was conducted in the kinds of crap holes you describe and I'm sure and consumers had no choice as to where they should do business. Everyone was eating asbestos flakes as they stepped over toxic waste puddles to get through the door, many of which would never make it out alive because they'd burn to death in horrible fires. Thankfully government saved us from this daily grind of death and destruction! :S

Let the train roll on, smoking now, drinking tomorrow, health food on Friday. I can't wait until the government prevents us all from thinking freely so we don't have to be so burdened with all the negative things that come from that endeavor!

Sean

Sean I agree with you. I want to ban drnking too. I am tired of being the DD. I want someone else to do it. If we ban drinking in the bars and restaurants, I will not have to do it as often as i do now. They are loud and obnoxious and rude and they start fights and they are always thinking they can "hit" on people. UGH UGH UGH. :@)
Loved your post!

Thanks, I totally forgot about the getting "hit" on part....probably because as a guy it never happens to me 🙂 Maybe we should just ban drinking by men in bars!

Sean

Loved your posts, stiphy. Too funny! Too true!

Note: Post removed by board moderator, November 17, 2010.

Let's keep it civil, please!

Disgusted? You should be...the analogy is nearly perfect. It doesn't convey the vile and pernicious nature of second-hand smoke, but it makes up for it by illustrating the degradation to which smokers subject everyone.

That was absolutely disgusting and no reason for the comparison. You could have made your point without taking it a degrading and violent place. I reported it and I can't imagine Islander would leave something so inappropriate up. What kind of person says something like that to strangers....ever?

You are not just offending smokers but people who do not smoke. Absolutely appalling judgement IMO. I would much rather see you banned from restaurants at this point because I definitely don't want to be next to you hearing that kind of garbage.

Watching someone blow smoke into your child's face should provoke the same reaction. Only a hypocrite would find fault with the analogy.

You are one hundred percent wrong. I can definitely see want to hurt the person that did that, but sexually degrade or rape that person??? That's sick.

You are right, it IS sick...and it is EXACTLY comparable to what smokers do in public places every day. (Note, however, that I said "...let me..." which, importantly, implies consent.)

Report me as you wish, Islander may ban me if he sees fit, but I make an important point: that public smokers are: negligent, rude, vulgar.

Edited to add: ...and now, thank goodness, criminal.

Ok, a little too far.
Anyone who thinks that someone who works around smokers can just work somewhere else is being verry shortsighted, do you think that miners are like , oh good black lung. People for the most part work because they need to not for fun and some have limited options due to education and or location, often this puts people of a lower economic standing in jobs that are more dangerous, no need to add to that danger for selfish reasons. So are the folks that are screaming for their rights champions for all when it comes to equal rights or is it more of a my backyard kind of thing? It would be nice if there was this kind of hot response from both sides when it is over someone elses rights being stepped on.

You people are really getting stupid here; grow up, stop acting like children.

Smoking is disgusting; smoking affects my health; smokers stink.

Here here STXoldie, let's pass a law against stinky people too. I don't like them...let's ban them as well even in private places!

Oh and ugly people too, I hate it when I look across a restaraunt and someone with a hideous overbite or huge snoz makes eye contact with me. It just ruins my meal, it makes me want to vomit which is hazardous to my health and the health of those around me! Let's ban them from restaraunts as well!

One day my friends, one day we'll rid this place of ugly stinky people in public (mehehehe)! Just need to find that majority vote!

As a non-smoker my take on this has nothing to do with smoking but with property rights which are more important than me. They go to the heart of what it means to be a free person on this spinning rock.

Sean

Sean--you are silly

I think the government should leave everyone alone. So what if BP spilled oil in the Gulf, it's their well they can do what they want. Clean water? If I want my oil refinery to dump chemicals into the river that's my business. If you don't like it you don't have to drink the water. Clean Air? Hovensa could sure save some money if they didn't have to worry about what comes out of their stacks.

Sounds silly to compare these to smoking but 450,000 people a year die from smoking related illnesses in the US alone. But let's just keep on breathing that second hand smoke and not complain. If you don't like the smoke you can just go somewhere else to breath.

I would defend a smokers right to smoke in public if they would just keep their smoke to themselves. And I don't mean blow it up into the air away from other people, I mean don't let it escape into our air. While Sean's comments are funny, in every case his oppressed class is not adversely affecting the health of others. Smoking is not only unhealthy for the smoker it is unhealthy for anyone around the smoker.

I think that you should have a right to kill yourself, I do not think that you have a right to kill others.

I think someone needs to go into time out!! 😛

Sean, do you allow people to smoke around your child; how about you Tami, you are so protective about JJ but yet you defend smoking and dislike making him wear a seat belt or bike helmet--do you or your friends smoke around him?

Just curious

Chill......

We're talking about a legal activity engaged in on private property and a government willing to ban legal activities on private property.

Smoking is legal. Like it or not, it's legal. Dumping chemical waste into rivers and punching people in the face are illegal activities. Making comparisons is nonsense.

Inviting the public onto private property does not magically make it public property. It remains private property.

Do I have the right to smoke on your property, John? No? Why not? Smoking is, after all, legal. I think you'll tell me, in no uncertain terms, that it's your property and that you make the rules. If I don't like your rules, I can leave. You hold the property rights.

If I invite you and a few friends to my property, do you have the right to demand that no one lights up? Heh heh...I think not. The tables have turned. This time it's my property and I make the rules. If you don't like it, you can leave. I hold the property rights.

If you go out to have dinner on private property, who decides whether smoking is allowed? Up until now, the business owner made that decision because he/she holds the property rights. A majority, out of pure self-interest, has decided to assert their non-existent rights on someone else's property. Government has complied. Government has now banned a legal activity on private property. Your smoke-free meal comes at a price of property rights stripped by government. Enjoy your steak.

BTW..taking photos so that fines can be assessed against the person that just cooked your steak may not be such a good idea if you want to return there. He handles your food out of your sight 😀

Aussie,

You miss the obvious. A public restaurant is treated differently than a private residence. The last time that I checked private homes did not require health inspections of the kitchens. A health card is not required to serve food in a private residence. Fire alarms, occupancy limits, etc. The government is concerned with the health of the public. If you have asbestos in your private home no one is going to make you take it out, until you try to sell your home. But a restaurant would have to remove it immediately. Is this a property rights issue? When you get a business license to operate a restaurant you agree to obey the rules as specified by the DLCA and Health Dept. As much as you keep wanting to make this a property rights issue, it is in fact a public health issue. The ban on smoking in restaurants is not because tobacco smoke stinks (even though it does), it is because the government has determined that tobacco smoke endangers the health of not only the smoker but everyone around the smoker. The health requirements for restaurants are constantly being changed, as technology changes and as we learn more about the ill effects of tobacco smoke the rules have changed. The USVI is only now catching up with the regulations in the upper 48.

Do you deny that tobacco smoke is unhealthy? The solution to your problem is to only eat at private residences. I am surprised that tobacco is still legal, I expect that to change in the future. The regulation of tobacco was transferred to the FDA this year, I would not be surprised if you will need a prescription for tobacco in the future. After all it is a drug, a very dangerous and addictive drug. The USPS no longer allows tobacco products to be shipped through the mail as of June.

John

I actually agree with many of the things you've said, rotorhead. You've expressed yourself well.

Deny that smoking is unhealthy? Nope. Not at all.

This may indeed be a public health issue but this particular solution infringes upon property rights. Public restaurants are indeed treated differently than a private residences - as they should be. It's still private property though and the bundle of rights goes with the property. The government is charged with public safety. Health inspections, smoke detectors, occupancy limits are all warranted to keep the public safe in such an environment. The government is also charged with protecting our rights - including property rights.

Smoking is still legal. Many of the restaurants on this island chose to allow smoking. That was their right. You and others were then free to choose whether you wanted to go there or not. A few restaurants chose to ban smoking. That was their right. You and others were then free to choose whether you wanted to go there or not. Perfect.

If the restaurants that allowed smoking lost enough business, they may have changed their smoking policies. They're in business to make money, after all. If enough people were screaming for smoke-free places to eat on this island, it would've been a hell of an opportunity and folks would've opened smoke-free restaurants. Let the market drive the policies with regard to legal activities.

But, you and others want to be able to eat at every restaurant on this island in a smoke-free environment. You feel that you have a "right" to do so. Obviously, enough folks in the legislature wanted the same thing, enacted a new law and, in doing so, stripped rights from property owners in the name of public safety.

stiphy is correct. All it will take is a majority (or perhaps only a few senators) to start taking away your rights. You'll have nothing to complain about when/if it happens.

LOL...trying to keep up with your edits 🙂 USPS banning tobacco products was nothing more than a HUGE victory for Big Tobacco and a means for the government to tax it excessively.