QUICK!!! Before Ralph gets back!

For me, Ralph being away is a reason to stay away from the DMV.

Next time, bring him a tuna. You'll get what you need in a jiffy.

No windshield? No problem.

The only person at the DMV whom I can't stand is the nasty woman who takes photographs. She is the most arrogant person I've ever encountered, on island or off. Earlier this year several of us were waiting for her to take our photographs and a group of the women in the waiting room were chattering amongst themselves, strategizing about how to handle her, admitting that a pleasant encounter wasn't in the cards for any of them. Their discussion seemed over-the-top for such a simple, everyday situation but once it was my turn I realized that they knew the woman and were spot on accurate in their assessment of the situation. Nobody fully accomplished what they came for that afternoon and the DMV woman raised her voice with several of the folks in line ahead of me. I would very much like to know when she takes her vacation each year so that I could plan future DMV trips accordingly.

My message was meant more tongue in cheek, no matter how truthful it may also have been.

If you have never seen this side of Ralph, you obviously haven't lived here very long.

So is offering a bribe or accepting a bribe the greater evil?

There are people who make a living just clearing cars out of customs and taking cars through the DMV.

These people are citizens just like you and I. They are no better than us and there is no real "reason" why they'd be able to something in a few hours that can literally take you more than a day. It's not because they "know the ropes" either. You can have each and every step of the process committed to memory and you would still languish in the waiting rooms with everyone else.

What do they have that you don't? Connections. They know the people who can get things done and do them for them quickly. In many cases, the wheels of the process are greased by a little extra incentive to make sure that person's trip to a particular office is as brief as possible.

We pay those people because time is money. It's worth $100 if you can save a day in administrative hell.

So, is taking a bribe or offering a bribe the greater evil? I would quickly say it's "accepting a bribe." If everyone in a position of power (that includes folks at DMV) were opposed to taking any kind of extra compensation, be that cash, a tuna, or a reciprocal favor, then bribes would be useless and we'd all be treated as equals.

Until that utopiam vision comes to the USVI, I will stand by my tuna.

Hi Rich.

Are you arguing that offering a bribe has no ethical dimension and any ethical issues accorded the acceptance of a bribe rest solely with whomever accepts the bribe?

I can't see it as black and white.

If you offer a bribe to a cop to look the other way while you stab someone = bad.

Give a guy a tuna to ignore a crack in your windshield = ok.

I can understand the fact that offering and accepting bribes can both be seen as ethically questionable actions. It's the same argument that is used when we prosecute "johns" for patronizing hookers. Get rid of the johns and you effectively get rid of the hookers.

Suffice to say that it's a "grey" area.

Ralph and I also frequent the same bars in Cruz Bay. If I were to buy Ralph a few drinks one night without asking for anything in return and found my next visit to the DMV to be strangely effortless, should I feel guilty?

It's an interesting conundrum. In most places in the U.S. it's a felony to bribe a public servant and a felony for a public servant to accept a bribe. I don't know about USVI law but ethical standards are generally more stringent than legal standards.

Without checking I would assume that bribing a public servant in the USVI is probably also a felony.

Enforcement is another issue entirely.

There are probably laws regarding nepostism for government jobs that probably get the same level of enforcement.

So because nepotism is bad, it is okay to bribe someone. Because laws are not enforced, it is okay to break them. And the windshield deal- would that be squid pro quo?

Are we talking hypothetical, utopian, best-case scenarios here or are we discussing the real world? If this is going to be some ivory tower discussion of the crumbling ethical foundation of modern society, I'd rather watch SportsCenter.

EE, I think you'd like this to be a black and white issue.

What makes a bribe? I'm not talking envelopes of cash handed to a corrupt government official. (I'm sure I wouldn't be able to find one around here anyway.)

If I treat a friend to some cocktails without expecting anything in return and someday in the future he negects to ticket me for an expired parking meter, am I guilty of felony bribery?

Life is much easier when you do favors for people. I don't consider this bribery if some of those people happen to be public servants.

And you will be the first in line to shout about how corrupt the government here is, while you comfortably offer your fish! What a double standard. Amazing!

RL

Acknowledging that there is government corruption and then offering someone a fish does not create any kind of double standard. It's called assimilation.

Locals and long time residents are always telling recent arrivals that they need to "get used to island life", "forget how things were back home", "respect local traditions" and "do as locals do."

Well, I got the hint.

When you get left at the back of the line often enough, you start to think, "Hey! What the hell do I have to do to get up there?!" I also wouldn't say that I'm "first in line to shout" about corruption either. This forum has plenty of discussions on corruption and I haven't been in there at all. Not worth the effort.

This is an interesting thread, because there are points to both sides of the argument of what is a bribe. Tipping or gifting practices and the general attitude toward them vary from one place to another. Where such payments are customary or expected or gift giving is routine , such as in the VI, many feel that within the law, they are not violating ethical principles when they tip or give a gift to an official to perform his duty. Keep in mind that there is a difference between extending a gift for a legitimate service and offering a bribe for an unlawful favor.

IMHO, it is wrong to bribe an official, to give him something valuable so that he will do something illegal or pervert justice. But it is not bribery to give a gift to a public servant when he performs his duty or to obtain a legitimate service or to avoid unfair treatment (such as verbal abuse mentioned). Ultimately, we have to decide for ourselves whether to give a gift to receive a legitimate service or to avoid unfair treatment, and also bear responsibility for any resulting complications (i.e.get a ticket and fine for the winshield).

For example. if you try to get copies of your tax recipts or letters form the Department of Finance, you can wait days or weeks. Is it a bribe if I happen to drop off my requests and set a big box of cookies next to the coffee pot for ALL to enjoy in the department. Then one of the clerks smiles and waves me over and tells me to sit down and have a cup of coffee while they get me taken care of? Is it a bribe because I showed generosity and a willingness to get to know them over a cup of coffee and some cookies?

Haha Ed. You had me laughing out loud envisioning your "meet and greet" with the DOF personnel over cookies and coffee.

Methinks I might have to pick up a box of cookies soon...

It's just that so many people scream of the corrupt government hear and feel they are compelled to bribe someone to get something done. It isn't so, it's their job. The more these stories circulate, the more people are apt to bribe and of course some will accept. It all needs to stop somewhere!

RL

Come on Ed, do you really not know the answer to your question?

Yes, is it a bribe to drop off your business requests at an office and set a box of cookies next to the coffee pot for all in the department to enjoy. Offering an incentive for clerks to break the rules of their employment situation and take care of your needs ahead of the needs of others who have been waiting their turn is a bribe. You can spin it as "generosity" and a "willingness to get to know them" but the bottom line is that you expect something from them and they know it, as do you. A professional business environment is not the appropriate place for nurturing personal friendships specifically because conflicts of interest exist. If you wish to develop personal friendships with business acquaintances the appropriate place to do so is in social situations. Bribing public servants ensures that your needs are met but it also ensures that the average person who cannot afford to pay bribes will inevitably be denied equal treatment.

I too find this thread very interesting and thought I would share our experience as it contains elements of both sides...

When we moved here, I went to register our car. After a verbal argument with the PO at inspection who threatened arrest, I vowed never to return and to simply do what others on island do, PAY, someone else to do it.

I have always imagined that the $$ I pay to register my vehicles goes to the servicer's time and to perhaps, a "box of cookies" for his friend at BMV.

Now that we have lived here for several years, this year hubby registered our cars. He though perhaps being accompanied by our amazingly cute daughter might result in a positive experience. He was wrong. The person made his life miserable and the car was not registered.

But hubby is unlike me, he does not think we should simply surrender to rude, discourteous government personnel. He resolved to return and speak with Mr. Olive. Not sure if it was the amazingly cute little girl he took along or simply that Mr. Olive does his job darn well, but our car was registered without incident. The next month our second car was registered by Mr. Olive, again without incident.

Me thinks that in Rome do as the Romans do. When in the USVI you bring in a box of cookies or a tuna as the occasion warrants. the islands are a unique place with customs unto themselves. Learn to make it work with you for you.

Ralph is not a bad guy. With Ralph, a story or a kind word worked as well as a tuna or some cookies. I don't think the isue with Ralph was bribery as much as it was showing that you acknowledged and respected him. However, I do know that the bribery mentality does exist in the VI. I once applied for a permit with PWD and was told in no uncertain terms that the permit could either cost $50 or $5,000, depending on how fast I wanted to get it approved. Like anywhere else, there are good people and there are bad people.

peace.... bert

In 2 1/2 years I have used the simple logic that if I need it bad enough I can pay for it. The first two times I had someone else register my car for me. This year I went down to the STT office to see for myself and surprisingly enough I was in and out in 35 minutes with no worries.
When it came to cable it was different. I need cable for financial shows etc.. and waiting a week and half was not an option to get it set up. I simply asked the nice young lady at the front desk if any installers were willing to work off the clock or overtime. I said I would pay $100 to be set up that day and amazingly enough I had an equally nice gentlemen show up at my house that afternoon and I now have his personal cell phone number for any difficulties I encounter with my cable.
Did I bribe him?? absolutely. Do I regret it??? Absolutely not.
All in all not much different then living in N.J.