plane crash

isnt three days a little to soon to call off a search. alot of water to cover. yesterday did see copters flying along east end coast of STX.
should be able to find more then floating newspapers.

isnt three days a little to soon to call off a search. alot of water to cover. yesterday did see copters flying along east end coast of STX.
should be able to find more then floating newspapers.

Calling off search and RESCUE or calling off search and RECOVERY?

Saw a lot of people drown in one of the great lakes from my apartment this summer. They'll usually spend a day doing rescue ops (coasties, helios, divers in the water), and then, when it's reasonably clear that there's no survivors, they pull off the full complement of rescue personnel. Recovery usually continues for awhile after that. Dunno who's jx it is now, but at this point they're just looking for bodies and debris.

Sad all around. Condolences to all family and loved ones who lost someone.

IT

Rules are very different for small private planes. Ric and I flew from Louisville to Phoenix a few years ago. We did file flight plans on each leg of the flight so that someone would know (eventually) if we did not show up on time. But this is not mandatory and, even with the flight plans, it would have taked a lot longer than 2 hours for someone to start worrying about us.

it's been reported that the pilot contacted the tower 8 miles out from STT. http://stcroixsource.com/content/news/local-news/2012/10/15/search-suspended-monday-downed-plane-and-passengers I just think that time was very critical in this rescue operation and too much time was lost, especially with the crash being so close to STT.

The flight left Henry E. Rohlsen Airport on St. Croix at 4:39 a.m. The plane’s last radio contact with the Federal Aviation Administration tower came when the plane was about eight miles out from St. Thomas.

The Port Authority Police called 911 at 7:44 a.m., and a search team that included people from Planning, the Port Authority and the V.I. Territorial Emergency Management Agency began searching waters just to the west of Water Island and southwest of St. Thomas.

isnt three days a little to soon to call off a search. alot of water to cover. yesterday did see copters flying along east end coast of STX.
should be able to find more then floating newspapers.

Didn't quite say called off, it said suspended, and the Source article said:

After searching since Saturday for survivors of a downed Piper Aztec plane piloted by Kirby Hodge, the U.S. Coast Guard at sunset Monday suspended the search, according to Coast Guard spokesman Ricardo Castrodad. The plane went down about six nautical miles south of St. Thomas early Saturday morning while on a routine newspaper delivery run.

However, Castrodad said, that if anything turns up, the Coast Guard will renew its search.

isnt three days a little to soon to call off a search. alot of water to cover. yesterday did see copters flying along east end coast of STX.
should be able to find more then floating newspapers.

Didn't quite say called off, it said suspended, and the Source article said:

After searching since Saturday for survivors of a downed Piper Aztec plane piloted by Kirby Hodge, the U.S. Coast Guard at sunset Monday suspended the search, according to Coast Guard spokesman Ricardo Castrodad. The plane went down about six nautical miles south of St. Thomas early Saturday morning while on a routine newspaper delivery run.

However, Castrodad said, that if anything turns up, the Coast Guard will renew its search.

I thought the STX Source sd rescue search called off or "suspended" Monday -- i.e., the Coasties are off the clock for now. I suppose if a raft of survivors turned up, the Coasties would send out a team. That's unlikely to happen. I wonder how many life jackets were on that plane? The news reports stated that the woman who survived didn't have one. This story does not have a good ending and I will never, ever, ever, ever, ever, fly an airplane without a co-pilot again. No disrespect to Mr. Hodge, who I understand was a skilled and experienced pilot, but I've heard too many horror stories about Cape Fear and other small airline disasters and near-disasters down here to want to climb back into one of those things again. This is how much I hate small planes: I WOULD RATHER STAY OVERNIGHT AT THE SAN JUAN AIRPORT AND WAIT FOR A BIG PLANE. (Gasp. I know. I'm def buying one of those disinfecting wands from the SkyMall catalog first, though.)

it's been reported that the pilot contacted the tower 8 miles out from STT. http://stcroixsource.com/content/news/local-news/2012/10/15/search-suspended-monday-downed-plane-and-passengers I just think that time was very critical in this rescue operation and too much time was lost, especially with the crash being so close to STT.

The issue is that the plane left STX bound for STT while both control towers were still closed. They open at 7am. Pilots can still fly and control the runway lights. The flight left STX at 4:39am then there was 2 hours & 20 minutes before the towers would open to know there was an issue. This is why it is always wise to contact San Juan - so someone knows you are out there.

 

The issue is that the plane left STX bound for STT while both control towers were still closed. They open at 7am. Pilots can still fly and control the runway lights. The flight left STX at 4:39am then there was 2 hours & 20 minutes before the towers would open to know there was an issue. This is why it is always wise to contact San Juan - so someone knows you are out there.

ok, that answers one of the questions I had as to whether or not the tower was manned.

Still wondering about that radio contact that was made to the tower. They don't give a time or say to which tower. The pilot would know that STT tower is closed. He makes the trip pretty much everyday. I'm wondering if he tried to reach SJU.

The STT tower has a recorded radio - so the transmission was likely to STT and recorded. When flying into an uncontrolled area you announce yourself and that may be the transmission that was discussed.

My understanding is that the pilot was flying VFR and did not file a flight plan. He also did not request traffic advisories from San Juan Approach so no one was paying attention to him on radar.

These are two things that a pilot can do to make sure that someone is watching out for them, neither is required legally.

Legally he is only required to contact STT tower before he reaches their Class C airspace, which is 5 miles from the airport assuming that he was below 1900'. He was released from control by STX tower when he crossed the north shoreline of St Croix heading to STT. During the over water portion of his flight he was on his own unless he contacted San Juan Approach for traffic advisories, which is voluntary for VFR flights. i understand exactually what you are saying and i appreciate your explanation rotorhead. i guess the question that remains in my mind was this his usual protocol not to contact san juan ,since from what i have gathered i he did this route daily???i guess it is all unimportant at this point in time after such an extreme tragedy...prayers and sympathies to all families involved.

if the reports are true, i am still pondering how anyone could stay afloat for 8/9 hours without a life jacket or floating device. god bless that woman for her intense courage and determination,never mind the mental anguish she must have been experiencing.

i understand she did have a floating device. one she found later on and used it to signal the planes,

The STT tower has a recorded radio - so the transmission was likely to STT and recorded. When flying into an uncontrolled area you announce yourself and that may be the transmission that was discussed.

(tu)ok thanks, good info. It'll be interesting to see the NTSB report on this down the road.

i understand she did have a floating device. one she found later on and used it to signal the planes,

i have not heard or read this anywhere. where did you get this information from? i am not trying to contradict you.INDEED I HOPE YOU ARE RIGHT,because it has been boggling my mind how anyone could stay afloat for that long.

Aircraft are required to carry approved flotation equipment for all on board if they fly 50 miles offshore.

Anyone who flys around here would be foolish not to carry flotation equipment. Now whether or not they were easy to get to is another question.

Aircraft are required to carry approved flotation equipment for all on board if they fly 50 miles offshore.

Anyone who flys around here would be foolish not to carry flotation equipment. Now whether or not they were easy to get to is another question.

my thoughts exactly rotorhead...i know most small aircarfts use the seat cushions as the flotation device which is perfectly fine...but i just wonder as you "how easy it was to get to. i know i will now pay extreme attention to the details of floating devices on small planes. for what ever reason{and i apologize} i am absolutely obsessed with the details of this woman's survival,considering the amount of time and her size. i personally love flying the local small planes and prefer them when ever available.

i know most small aircarfts use the seat cushions as the flotation device which is perfectly fine...but i just wonder as you "how easy it was to get to.

Actually most small general aviation aircraft like this Piper Aztec to not use cushions for flotation equipment. They usually will carry inflatable life jackets which can be stowed away and/or carry an inflatable life raft. Unfortunately many pilots get used to stowing them in the aft cargo area where they can be accessed from the passenger area but not very easily. And unfortunately many pilots do not have a quick egress training session with their passengers before flights.

maybe her size is what kept her floating in this salty water.

maybe her size is what kept her floating in this salty water.

That's EXACTLY what everyone in our office was saying the other day.

I assume from this commentary she was of larger size? Perhaps that also kept her insulated...being in the water, even in the Caribbean, for 8+ hours is a mighty chilly prospect and hypothermia/death is completely possible...

Ok, I'm confused. I thought we were talking about the PLANE floating because it was a small aircraft?

Just to clarify some previous posts about the Coast Guard suspending its search, it was only the CG. According to an article in today's Source, a slew of emergency management teams and private entities have continued to search and will be out again today.

Ok, I'm confused. I thought we were talking about the PLANE floating because it was a small aircraft?

AHHHHH! Okay. THAT was funny.

Just to clarify some previous posts about the Coast Guard suspending its search, it was only the CG. According to an article in today's Source, a slew of emergency management teams and private entities have continued to search and will be out again today.

Right. Pretty sure the feds bug out once there's no longer a chance of any rescue. Recovery is a local operation.

Plane was found with one body on board, possibly female.

http://stthomassource.com/content/news/local-news/2012/10/20/missing-aircraft-and-one-body-located