OT: HR3200 - you may read the health care reform bill as it develops

OK we have established I'm a nut case.

And here is your hero

Now will you explain where the money to do this is coming from? Can you?

Michael,
Not sure which one of you is more crazy!! I wish someone would stand up in one of his town halls and ask if we can all have HIS health insurance like they do with the Senators. Or if he'll relinquish his and go with what they put in place for us.

It was funny watching his MT townhall. They talk about Montana being a historically Republican state, but Belgrade is a small town where the Bozeman, MT airport is located is about 1 hour from the north entrance to Yellowstone. That part of MT was hugely Obama during the election. I was there. Margot Kidder and other famous people came and did Obama readings and held huge rallies. Tom Brokaw (haven't followed his politics) lives right there too. And they said that usually if someone stated they were a member of the NRA in that state the whole place would have cheered. When the one guy said that - only a few claps were heard. Tell me they didn't hand pick those people.

Linda that question has been asked and a number of repubs have signed on to an agreement to go with the the plan for us masses but NOT ONE last ime I checked democrat has done so ..... lest you think otherwise I actually see little difference between the replicrats and I am a card carrying Libertaiain and Union memeber for all thos who wanna thro rock ast me.

I have had two abdominal surgeries yestruda and scared sh!@#less the storms are going to take our boat and that is schedualled to be our only home in the near futre so I hope yal have a little patience with me. Thank gog for Percoset LOL

Are you alright?!? Can someone help secure your boat for you? I've been through major abd. surgery - 7 times over! Slit from side to side hip to hip. I understand what it's like. WOW! - let us know if anyone can help out. That's what we're here for.

Linda the boat is cared for as best as possible but one of the reasons STX isnt a baoter paraice is lake of good hurricane holes .

Thanks for your concern!

hoover fiddled while the usa burned, he and his wife hosted more parties at the white house while america was crashing than any other president in history, fdr and his policies saved the country and made it great teddy r was the first president to call for universal health care,washington and hamilton freed us jefferson made us smart,lincon gave us a social conscience,fdr made us great and obama is just trying to make us great again after years of mediocrity

fdr did nothing to help and the dpression went way longer than it should because of his actions. WW2 is what ended the depression. Is that what you want again? another war?

prove it michael

state your case

trw you are a very smart person (tu)
I can read and so can you.

So much gov interference.
Why do you think health care is so expensive today?
Hint: wage and price controls.
Why do you think higher education cost so much?
Hint: Pel grants and Stafford loans.
Why so many broken homes?
Hint: Subsidizing broken homes.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

"The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money"
MT

Hoover did exactly what Obama is doing. He poured stimlus money into the economy creating a false sense of recovery. After the great crash the stock market did rally for almost 6 months. Hoover was promising prosperity was around the corner. He called in the CEOs of the big banks and the CEOs of the auto industry and told them to spend more money and hire more people. Raised the taxes on an already broken society. The burden was too much to bear. The people who survived were the ones who saved as much money as possible, got out of the stock market and worked at any job that they could find. The difference between the great depression and now is that no one had a mortgage. People who owned their homes owned them out right. People who rented still had homes because the landlords owned them out right. So people were not homeless.

The end of the great depression came when FDR was elected and on his 3rd day in office he declared banking holidays and then the advent of WW 2.

History does indeed repeat itself.

well part of me thinks there's nothing wrong with a good war it actually takes care of a few societal problems, puts people to work, gives the oil companies money,thins the herd

I misspoke about the homeless during the great depression. There were thousands of homeless living in tents and shacks. My comparison was that few people had mortgages back then compared with today where few own their homes outright.

look this country needs health care for all it's citizens, i pay taxes and i could care less what it costs, we need it, it's the right thing to do,education should be free as well, it the state wants smart healthy citizens then the state needs to pay for it, hey i own shares of berkshire, i know what profits are all about, i'm all for making lots of bucks but i'm also for social responsibility

The state does not want smart healthy citizens.
Smart healthy citizens could not be bamboozled the way we are.
The state wants sheep. And the state is doing a damned good job of cranking them out.
Would a state that wants smart healthy students raise them in projects? Pay young girls to get pregnant?
Take money from the creators of wealth and give it to the drones? Ever read The Little Red Hen?

Sure if the state was delibertly creating sheep to work the turnstyles.
I suggest you read "If You Want To Be Rich and Happy, Don't Go To School" and then read the Rich Dad books in series.
That is if you REALLY are one who wants to learn.

I am or have been a subscriber to "The Progressive, Mother Jones, The Economist, I listen to Limbaugh and Diane Reem.
I read incesantly. I get information from a variety of sources. Do you?

I make up my own mind.
It's extremely depressing at times to be even slightly aware of what goes on in the world.
Easier to follow whatever snake oil salesman tugs upon your emotions...
This is why most refuse to think. It hurts to see your fellow human beings treated so poorly....

trw if you choose to not belive what I write how do YOU explain the curent "state" of affairs. Pun intended 🙂

sorry michael but i'm not drinking your cool ade, you seem to me to be one of the bubbas that hates your fellow citizens,you seem to me to be one of the guys that says fuckyou if you can't afford health care,you seem to me to be one of the guys that says fuckiyou i got mine and you'tre fucked

best you can do is an ad hominem attack?

You win. I guess I'm just an ignorant "bubba" ....

nah i just don't want to bother with the intellictual stuff, ur a bubba plain and simple no amount of discourse will ever change that, ur mind is set against health care for everyone and so there is no reason to talk to you anymore

Sorry I hurt your feelings.

TRW,

I think food should be "free" too...we need it to survive as well. Oh and internet because knowledge should be "free" as well.

One problem, someone has to MAKE this stuff and expects to be compensated for their time.

Nothing is free, its just a matter of who pays for it. I prefer a system where we each work hard, helping each other, in order to pay for what we need. I've worked too hard and given WAY too much of myself to be able afford the things I need like healthcare. To now force me to also afford the healthcare YOU need is to dimish the choices, hard work, and sacrafices that I made makes me a bit angry.

The choices I made were to help others in ways that they valued. Hence they paid me a decent amount of money for that help. I CHOSE TO HELP OTHERS so I could afford healthcare among other things I need to survive. If you give me healthcare for "free" I would likely not make the same choices..I'd likely care much less about helping others in ways that they value enough to pay me well. I fail to see how that would benefit society.

Providing for one's healthcare, just like any other good that they need to survive, is a great way to motivate one to help others by working.

What we have is a mess, the WAY we pay for healthcare is a disaster. But I cannot agree with the expectation that anyone besides me should be WHO is paying for MY healthcare.

Sean

There are people who have no children or people that send their children to private school. Yet they pay the tax to educate the children of others.

We the Tax payer, just gave a lot of money to the Large Banks, Auto Industry. The Large Banks just raised interest rates on credit cards, they (Large Banks) said the cost of money made them do it. The Cost of Money?

TRW,

I think food should be "free" too...we need it to survive as well. Oh and internet because knowledge should be "free" as well.

One problem, someone has to MAKE this stuff and expects to be compensated for their time.

Nothing is free, its just a matter of who pays for it. I prefer a system where we each work hard, helping each other, in order to pay for what we need. I've worked too hard and given WAY too much of myself to be able afford the things I need like healthcare. To now force me to also afford the healthcare YOU need is to dimish the choices, hard work, and sacrafices that I made makes me a bit angry.

The choices I made were to help others in ways that they valued. Hence they paid me a decent amount of money for that help. I CHOSE TO HELP OTHERS so I could afford healthcare among other things I need to survive. If you give me healthcare for "free" I would likely not make the same choices..I'd likely care much less about helping others in ways that they value enough to pay me well. I fail to see how that would benefit society.

Providing for one's healthcare, just like any other good that they need to survive, is a great way to motivate one to help others by working.

What we have is a mess, the WAY we pay for healthcare is a disaster. But I cannot agree with the expectation that anyone besides me should be WHO is paying for MY healthcare.

Sean

Your comments reflect the Mis-understanding that far too many people seem to have about "healthcare reform". If it is done properly it will allow people who cannot now afford health insurance the opportunity to get it. It will also allow people like you to buy your healthcare insurance at a more reasonable cost. It will allow small businesses the opportunity to buy better priced healthcare for their employees through co-ops. It will force the big insurance companies and pharmacy giants to sell their products more competitively. It will stop the insurance companies from cherry picking only the healthy and denying coverage to those with pre existing conditions.

If we allow the special interests and political enemies to destroy healthcare reform we will all suffer even more. Don't be misled by the millions of dollars being spent by special interests. They are buying up congressmen left and right and we all will be the victims.

Send an email to President Obama and tell him you support a public insurance option. Without it this whole thing will fail.

HMO's and Trial Lawyers Love this!

Don't get me wrong, I do want to see some sort of reform. But I DO NOT want to see the costs of healtcare further obfuscated by more government meddling. I want to see the costs less obfuscated. The "public option" simply hides the true costs of healthcare behind taxes.

One of the biggest problems is that we've coupled health insurance with employment rather than have people pay for it out of pocket. If we had to pay for it out of pocket we'd probably demand far more reasonable, and affordable coverage. My employer doesn't pay for my car insurance, my house insurance, why are they paying my health insurance? The biggest reason is that tax code which could be changed.

Sean