Moving with kids

Hello Marie,

You need to do more research to answer your questions and plan your budget or savings. Find out how much the shipper/mover will charge for a container that can fit what you know you would be shipping. Take a look at the real estate listings so you have an idea of the price range of homes and you can start looking at whats out there. If you go to the real estate sections on this site under Real Estate and click on one of the featured agents most sites have a link to the real esate listings. Will your boys be attending private school or public school - you need to consider this well. Private schools are your better bet but are very pricey so you should look into schools and the cost of private education if this is what you want to do. In five years your oldest boy will be 13 - moving in junior high in which case I would strongly suggest private school. Order the Settlers Handbook and read it, read this board frequently, read the newspaper, read travel guidebooks, articles whatever you find about the USVI so you have as much info as possiable. The amount you need to save depends greatly on what you want and how you want to live here so consider those factors and you should be able to figure out a budget.

All the best in your planning.

--Islander

Hello,
We are also looking to move with children this summer (ages 10 and 7). I have applied for a Teaching /Technology Coordinator position and am trying to learn as much as possible. I have a question for you, Islander. You wrote:

"Private schools are your better bet but are very pricey so you should look into schools and the cost of private education if this is what you want to do. In five years your oldest boy will be 13 - moving in junior high in which case I would strongly suggest private school."

Why would you strongly suggest a private school for teenagers? I've done a lot of reading on the Educational Technology program on the USVI and I have been very impressed with what I've read. It seems that the public schools are well funded due to the 80-90 percent of students eligible for free/reduced lunch (this is how fed. money/erate funds are dispersed). Have you no faith in the public school system in general, bias against low-income families, or do you have specifics that have influenced your advice? If so, please post them or email me.

I have been teaching in the public schools here in the US for several years and totally support public education. I would be coming to the USVI to help make a difference in the education of children, this is why I became a teacher in the first place. I wouldn't want to teach in the public school, while my kids attend a private school. That would be very hypocritical. I would like to know why you are so down on the USVI public education system and would like specific incidents so that I can further understand your reasoning and make a more informed decision about relocation.

Thanks,
Suzanne B.

Link: http://www.k-12world.com/Success_USVirginIs.htm
for USVI Ed. Tech. info.

Marie,

First, I question what you mean by "mid-priced townhouse". This isn't America, and there are not suburban townhouse developments like you might be used to. I apoligize if I've misunderstood, but the real estate here is very unique from property to property, and I know of no Americanesque townhouses.

Second, you and Suzanne will obviously have to do your own research, but I cannot imagine bringing kids here and putting them in the public system. I don't have kids, so maybe I'm not entitled to an opinion, but in looking around, I sure don't have the impression that these schools are in the same class as you are probably accustomed to. I believe there was a time recently when the high schools weren't even recognized by American universities. I don't mean to be redundant, but THIS ISN'T AMERICA!!

stt,

I don't expect it to be America!!! That's why I want to go there! I want my children to experience a different culture and way of life. Can you please give me specific examples and links as to your negative impression of the USVI public ed. system?

Suzanne B

Suzanne,

I am not an education expert, nor do I have children. However, I do live here, and I have eyes and ears. As I said earlier, it is more of a general impression of what I see in the society as a whole. I would not say that excellence in eduacation is a long-standing part of the culture here.

It really is a much bigger issue than just the schools. Such as...

Go into government offices, the post offices, businesses, etc and you will find a workforce that has a basic skill level far below that found in the US. It is common for fairly big companies to still be using typewriters and carbon paper to fill out forms for utilities, insurance documets, etc. The 23 year old assistant I had in my stateside office could perform the work of 4 or 5 of these people, just because of her exposure to modern tools.

There was a converstion on the local talk radio station this morning about the problem of very few locals being able to pass the standard US test to become an electrician. The overwhelming response was that the test was too difficult and should be "dumbed down" so that more locals could receive accreditation.

I would guess that the rate of computer ownership and internet access here is quite low compared to where you live. I assume teachers in the public system here do not assign internet research homework, because many in the class would not have access.

Also, on a similiar note, the public library here is not like anything you have at home.

Finally, please see if you can find anything related to my earlier comment about the American universities and their recognition of the high schools here. It was 2 or 3 years ago, but I could swear that it was a big deal that the schools here were finally recognized.

While most of the people here are quite nice, you really need to keep in mind that this society was largely poor, isolated, uneducated and unindustrialized until the cruise industry exploded. That has been what 30 years? Maybe 40? There just hasn't been enough time for them to catch up to the standards of the "modern world". While that may be a benefit in some ways, it is not when we are talking about modern, cutting-edge educations.

Suzanne, maybe you will think I am all wet. Maybe I am. I'm just giving you the impressions of a guy who lives here. I hope you can use my observations to focus your research into whether this is a step you would want to take.

Marie/SuzanneB,

What anybody on this board thinks is immaterial. It is IMPERATIVE that you plan a 1-2 week scouting visit to the island of your choice. The entire culture here is so different that anything we say cannot be interpreted without first-hand knowledge.

Aside from the quality of the schools, do you realize that, if you are white, your children will probably be the only white, non-hispanic children in any public school? I live on St. Croix, which has a population of about 50,000 and only 2,500 - 3,000 of the population is white, non-hispanic. Do you know that they will probably be 1-2 years ahead of grade level here? What you will find is that many native-born professional virgin islanders were sent to off-island boarding schools during high school.

Moving a household with school-age children is a tremendous undertaking under any circumstances. Moving here will be tenfold more difficult.

We've only lived here for 6 months and our children are grown and on their own, so I am no expert. I love it here and plan on being here for a long time. There are plenty of reasons to move here and bring your kids. They will probably love it. But you must be realistic about life on the ground here. I don't know where you live right now, but if you go to any poor section of your community and look at the schools, they are probably better than the public schools here.

But again, you CANNOT take anyone's word. You MUST make a trip down.

That's my 2 cents. Please take it in the spirit I'm giving it.

To Islander and/or stt
I'm not moving with kids, but i am interested in your discussions about education (as a semi-kid myself). I have been researching and preparing myself for island life but I haven't looked much into one important issue--the university-- I have been accepted by UVI (stt campus) and would greatly appreciate your thoughts on the school. In more detail, I have my associate's degree in social and behavioral sciences from a community college here in California, I plan to get my bachelor's degree in biology (minor in psychology if possible) at UVI and then hopefully plan to go to some med school to get my doctorate in psychiatry. Granted I won't change my mind about moving and attending UVI (I'm bound to make school exiting), your comments would really help me out.
Also...
I have read that VI is planning to open a med school, how likely do you feel this is?
Do you know how UVI is regarded by other universities?
Is there anything else I should know about attending there?

Thank you for your time!! Manda

Sorry, I have no real knowledge//opinion regarding UVI.

I moved here with a five year old and put her in the private Montessori school because I wanted Montessori for her. Since moving here (been here 3 1/2 years) the public schools have lost accredidation (but are on track for getting it back) and I have not heard good things about the schools. There is one good elementary school (Sibilly) that I have heard about, though. The public schools lack in supplies and often have problems getting teachers who show up for work on a regular basis. That is not to say that there are good teachers out there. There are. But the choices are less. I would definitely put my children in private school. I read an editorial last week in the Daily News from a Mom whose 13 year old boy was slapped by a teacher in school.

That said, I think St. Thomas is a fantastic place to raise a child. It is a safe and small community where lasting friendships can be made. My daughter is extremely happy here, plays outside a lot, learns a lot in school and has great friends.

And this is America. It just seems like it is 20 years behind sometimes which isn't such a bad thing. It is not as consumer oriented as the states.

SuzanneB: I read with interest and my skeptical eye, the report from JDL that you had linked. Thank you.

In the first paragraph, they describe Hurricane Lenny and "turning around and hitting St Thomas twice." Hurricane Lenny formed near Jamaica and DID travel easterly, which is "backwards" for traditional hurricanes. It stalled out, but did not hit us twice. Soo... I am suspicious of the rest of the undated article.

I am not saying that this technology was not installed, it may very well have been installed. However, a very expensive computerized voting system was installed in the Legistature building many years ago, and it has never been used. There have been several publicized vandalism incidents in the schools over the past few years, usually involving computers. If you are thinking of moving based on this article, you *must* come for a visit and see for yourself if this equipment is still here, if it is being used, if all is as the article describes.

Because a stateside consultant has something on a website does not mean it is so.

Have you spent some time perusing the online newspapers: The Source at onepaper.com and virginislandsdailynews.com? Read the archives re: the public high schools. You also need to speak to teachers on the front line. You can gather some information from the Internet, but this is a first-person project. I do not want to scare you off, however, it seems that many people think that life here is going to be just like in the states only with a different culture, only the extent of the "differentness" is not fully understood. But we need teachers! Please continue your research...

OK, I see a few misconceptions on the board. I attended private school (graduated from Good Hope in June 2003) for many of the same reasons the other posters said. But the public schools ARE recognized by universities, even though they aren't accreditted. I remember attending a forum on St. Croix with representives from Harvard, University of Pennsylvania, and Georgetown who said that they don't really care if the school is accredited, they only care about the student's performance. So people who said that the universities won't recognize students from public schools are mistaken. I have many friends who attended public school who are now attending superb universities across the US.

I don't know what Linda J is talking about when she says many educated Virgin Islanders were "sent to off-island boarding schools during high school". I haven't heard of anyone who has done that and I know a LOT of people here. The public school system has the capability of producing educated people, it's just that they will have to have the foresight to ignore all distractions (violence, etc.), and no one will be there to push them along.

Also as a Virgin Islander, I'm offended when "stt" said "I would not say that excellence in eduacation is a long-standing part of the culture here." We are NOT a bunch of idiots, we are very hard-working, and though we have to go abroad for college work many times, we are people who never fail, because we want to see our island and our people prosper. Though we have big issues in education, we're not stupid, and many people DO have Internet access, it's not like computers do not exist here. And if someone doesn't have Internet access at home, they have access at school and about everyone knows a friend who has Internet access too.

But as for Suzanne, put your kids in private school, it's the best thing you could do for them. The private schools are more cutting edge, but would also provide for a more friendly atmosphere. If you choose to put them in public schools, just remember that our public schools are like the equivalent of an inner city public school, but they can get ahead if they put their best foot forward.

I lived in the VI for seven years. My husband was born there and we have relatives who reside there. My children were raised in NY and educated there. I would never consider schooling in St. Thomas for my children or Grandchildren. First of all too expensive for private school, some schools are not air conditioned, can't see how they can concentrate in such heat... My nieces and nephews all went to private school. My thing is saving money for college. My son currently lives there, but does not have children yet, he loves it. There is no department stores, which I'm used to, except for K-mart. It is great for a month in the winter. I found it quite boring.

One who knows

Thanks for such a heated debate on the school systems there. I have now planned to take a three week vacation there in a few months and tour the schools, Public and Private to see for myself. I may also consider home schooling my kids in addition to the offered schooling that is available, to be sure that they are getting the education that they need.

Marie

Dominic, I certainly defer to your greater knowledge on this subject. I was speaking of personal experience. On more than one occasion we have met Virgin Islanders who went to High School off-island, often living with family members in the states. How old are you? Perhaps this is a practice that is going by the boards.

Sorry if I offended you.

But you and I agree that Marie should come and see for herself.

Margaret, I've only lived here for 6 months, but so far I'm not bored.

Yes, but a VAST majority do not go to high school in the states. That is extremely rare for that to happen, it's not like a right-of-passage for us. (Like going to college in the states).

Thank you for all of your advice. I have decided to expand my job search to include the British VI (my husband is English, kids have dual citizenship), along with the Bahamas. I also thought about home schooling while my kids attend public school to make up for things. I don't know, I guess I'm just a romantic/idealist at heart and maybe it's time to move on to another dream?
Thanks,
Suzanne

Suzanne: British citizenship will not help with work in the BVI. Jobs there are offered first to Belongers, a complicated legal term for people who are from the BVI. You would have to have a work permit there. You still need to take a look-see of their schools, too...

Hello Suzanne,

It seems you took my comments as a 'knock' on public schools - that was not my intention. I am a product of the Virgin Islands school system both public and private and also university - commenting only on how I turned out I think they did a fabulous job!! On the serious side, my comments are not based on specific incidences they are based on years of schooling in the VI in addition to awareness of present issues. While overall I found my experienes to be very positive they also represent the school system of quite a few years ago and I can pick out quite a few areas that were faulty.

As for your comments - Speaking for St. Thomas only, I would strongly suggest a private school for junior high school students both living here and new residents because I feel that the amount of distraction in the school environment at this level at the schools here is enormous and negative. I totally agree with Dominic that while the students might be bright and teachers good the want to learn must be high as distractions are plenty. While many kids go through the public school system here and do succeed as Dominic also mentioned I think a new resident would find the school environment particularly on the junior high level a bit overwhelming. In addition to the environment there are bigger classroom issues like those eluded to concerning supplies or lack of and there is also the issue of accreditation - I think that having the high schools lose accreditation is a huge red flag of something being "wrong".

I don't see anything hypocritical about a gifted teacher working at a public school while sending their child to private school if they consider the education there to be better. Untimately this is all up to you. Do more research, read more information and articles, plan a pre-move visit so you can visit schools yourself and talk to people in person and then see if moving is still something you want to do with your family.

Hello Manda - I attended UVI on St. Thomas and the math and science dept is strong and very good. The social science dept is good as well and the psychology professors are good. Look into the early admin to medical school program they have - I don't remember which school the exchange is with however during the junior year the student attends pre-med for a year - this might be something of interest to you. In terms of attending medical school - medical school is quite difficult to get into as you must know and if this is a very serious consideration of yours you might plan on attending a more well known school with a strong pre-med program to help you acheive that goal or really really apply yourself at UVI so that you are a shining star on your medical school aps.

I am not aware of concrete plans to open a med school here. As for UVI regarded by other school - not sure, if you mean in terms of getting into med school, UVI isn't an ivy league of big name school if thats what you mean. As for education wise - I had quite a few classmates that attended other universities in addition to UVI and they said the classes were just as difficult, some more so, some less so. If you have other particular questions about the campus or school feel free to ask.

--Islander

I am also interested in moving to the usvi - as a beginning teacher, 33, no kids, 2 small dogs. I have spent more time in the bvi than us. And, yes, I have noticed differences in the use of technology, consumerism, pace etc. These differences are also part of my attraction to living on the islands. I have worked in inner city schools here in the us and thrive on the challenge. I would much rather contribute to a public school system that is evolving in its potential than a private system that functions seperately from much of the community. I understand that parents make choices that they feel are best for their kids. And I certainly respect those choices even if this means sending their kids to a private school. This is just my perspective on education and my passion for teaching, not a judgement about what individual families decide for themselves.

I am seeking contacts in the public education system of the usvi. I currently have a masters in my content area, many academic awards including a university-wide graduate fellowship at the University of Wisconsin-Madison and Phi Beta Kappa.

I welcome any comments about living and teaching in the usvi. I am most interested in St. Croix. Some of my concerns include the following: cost of living vs. teacher pay and finding affordable housing for myself and 2 small dogs.

Thanks!

Hello New Teacher,

You might visit the dept. of edu web sites at:
www.teachislands.vi
for education contacts and teaching opportunities in public schools as well as the certification info and application procedure.

--Islander

I was going to response to Linda's post but Dominic did such a great job at it I didn't have to. My dear linda I don't know who you are talking to but the majority of your information is totally wrong. East Ender the same goes for you. Most Continentals do not even have a clue what is going on with the local native population because their intereaction is very limited. To just sit their on your computer, thank goodness you have one and post all of those misconceptions about the people of the VI is totally retarded. That is the problem with most mainlanders they come to the VI with this concept that they are so superior to the local population, It sometimes makes me wonder why they are there if they are doing so much complaining about everything. If it is so wonderful where they were living my question is why did you all move to the VI to talk down about the place and the people. Someone stated that the VI is not America, indeed it is, you have a choice and the freedom to move there are approximately 10 flights leaving daily.

PS
The only time I have heard of kids being sent to the states in great numbers for school whas after major hurricanes. The public schools in the Vi has produce doctors, lawyers and many other professioanls

PS To Margaret talking about New York School system, I wouldn't even send my dog to school in that public school system.

Rhea--
Not sure how familiar you are with the NY public school system...but as an alum of Bronx HS of Science (in NY), I dispute your suggestion that the public school system is not even worthy of your dog. I agree that there are problems (as there are with many of the underfunded public school systems in the United States), but there are also significant opportunities for a New York student to get an excellent education and not pay exorbitant private school tuition.
Oddly enough, you did a great job defending the VI public school system, but in the same breath trashed the NY public school system. I can assure you that NY public schools have also produced "doctors, lawyers and many other professionals."

Sorry Onika if I offended you about the New York public school system but I was just venting about some of the rubbish that was posted. I know for a fact that there are excellent public schools in new york and as you stated many of the public schools throughout the country is facing diffcult times. It is just that from reading some of these post, these people would make you think that only the VI the public schools are struggling. Not to long ago there was a documentary about a public school in new york where all of the "Rich" Manhattanites forks were paying advisors to get their children accepted into the public school. I know there is excellents in public schools, it an individual along with the parents to make the best of sometimes a bad situation. If anyone can afford private schools I would say go for it, whether you are in New York, VI or Timbuktu.