Moving to USVI

Dear Jordan

You are asking the wrong questions.

Until you have "all" visited the USVI, either St Thomas or St Croix ... you will really not know what you are looking for.

Your questions make no sense to anyone who is or has been living here.

You should be asking if.. you or your friends should even be living on an island.

This is a great website and if you have enough information to ask the right questions... this website can give you very good answers.

SOooo as a general answer I will say....Yes there are jobs, but often short term rather than "professional"...Yes there are places to live, but most are unlike what you would expect in the states. Incidently there is almost no surfing in the usvi....

Yes...there is a future, but only if you have decided to change your way of life forever...

I think Joycelyn could do well teaching me....

good luck in your search...

Dear Stxer,

Thank you for your response. It seems as if many people looked at my message yet you were the only one who responded, so I thank you very kindly for doing so. I sincerely appreciate your time.

Our conception of the island life, although it may be somewhat contrived, is that we'd be able to slow down and live in the moment. Focus on life one day at a time and appreciate the things that truly matter to us, our relationships, staying healthy, enjoying the environment. Jack Johnson would always be on replay. Having visited other islands such as the Bahamas, we're aware that life would be quite different and there would be some culture shock initially but we hope much of that shock would be pleasant. We haven't accumulated many material posessions. Our most prized posessions are are books, music and photographs.

Getting accurate information on the Virgin Islands while you're in the States is proving exceedingly difficult to do. We've read through some travel books and have ordered other books recommended on this website. Any other suggestions?

We came to the same conclusion ourselves, regarding the need to visit and plan on doing so sometime in the fall. Probably in October or November. Is this a good or bad time to do so?

In our preliminary research, my wife, April has been concerned by the supposed high crime rates. I was wondering if anyone could tell me if crime truly is a problem there. Many of the travel books warn against traveling alone or being out after dark. It seems like such advice might have been exaggerated or perhaps crime on the island is the same as any other place; meaning that there are many areas in Rochester, NY where I wouldn't advise people to walk alone or go after dark.

Another concern seems to be traffic. Everything we've read says the roads are pretty bad from 4-6PM. Any truth in that?

Teaching seems to be an occupation that is in high demand. Can anyone confirm that as well?

Sorry for all the questions. I'm just very curious and would greatly appreciate any advice from those of you who were once in my shoes.

Respectfully,
Jordan

Hi Jordan,

I moved to STT last Oct myself. My reasons were to slow down and enjoy life more (I moved from NYC). Yes, it is very possible to do that here. But, it takes time. The last 5 months have been very stressful and equally awe inspiring-the adjustment can be pretty intense and I have done my share of moving around the globe.

The Jack Johnson on replay-yep that works. I spent a weekend camping in STJ one weekend and everyplace we went into from souvenir stores to bars were playing it (plus our little boom box). It was very bizarre-no complaints!! The reggae or Jack Johnson vibe is here. You will have moments that perfectly compliment both.

October is a great time to come down. The season is just starting to gear up. There are a fair amount of apartments available. The only person who might have an easier time finding a job is Otto because the boat industry is a little bit more seasonal. Otherwise, finding a job in a given career depends on luck just like on the Mainland. Except you need a little more down here because the job market is so much smaller.

As for crime rates, as I said I lived in NYC the last 8 years. You have to be careful here. I have had friends beaten up and robbed here. But, they were being stupid. There are many safe places here-especially the North Side. Life on the North Side is very quiet and secluded. You drive down the road and can barely see any homes it is mostly driveways that wind straight up or down. So it feels very private and safe. You would have to make a point of finding me first to rob me. It is wonderful. I love the North Side. Of course there are drawbacks-MOLD!! But, my view takes care of that. In my opinion, there is no better view than on the North Side so I deal.

We can email me and I can elaborate more on life down here. Like I said I was in your boat a few months ago. I have started reading this board again to give back. I could not have done it as gracefully without this board. I wouldn't even call it graceful really-but I had my moments. I do not consider myself a "local" yet, but my moving experience is pretty fresh and can definitely help you out.

As far as traffic, it's not a 4-6 thing. It is a ship thing. If there are a bunch of ships in, there is a lot of congestion around downtown. But, the East End, West and North Side are pretty consistently traffic free. There are moments like in the morning coming down the hill on the North Side or when a ferry arrives or departs in Red Hook.

I understand completely understand your curiosity! Good luck it can be a really great life down here. I don't regret it for a minute.

Shawn,

Thank you for responding. We gladly welcome any assistance you feel inclined to give and sincerely appreciate you answering some of our questions.

I've exchanged some emails with a real estate agent in St Croix. She told me that we could only find a "good" condo for better than $200K and a "good" house for better than $300K.

From what I've read, the salaries in the VI are generally less than the same job back in the States. I don't know if that's necessarily true. Perhaps you could shed some light on the topic. We were hoping to find a home in the $100-150K price range, hopefully no more than $200K. Especially if we're not making the equivalent of our current incomes.

$200-300K seems like an awful lot of money but I guess it's all relative right? Coming from NYC, that probably doesn't seem like much but in Upstate NY you can situate yourself nicely with that kind of money.

Anyhow, all we're interested in is a small place, we would be happy with 2 bdrms, 1 ba so long as it was a safe environment. Is that available on the North Side for less than $200K? Are there other areas we should concentrate our search upon? We think we're more inclined to focus on St Thomas. Is that a mistake? From what I've been told, tourism has been dying off in St Croix and that has hurt the economy with the exception of the Hess oil refinery.

When you first moved to the VI, were the locals accepting you do you have to put in time before you're accepted?

Thanks again for responding. There's no substitute for getting info from people who've done what we aspire to do. We sincerely appreciate it.

Looking very much forward to our visit and hopefully subsequent move. This message board has been the best resource we've found yet. Going to see Jack Johnson in Toronto in Sept. Went last year and it was one of those magical experiences. Sunny fall day, friendly crowd, good vibe, awesome show...

Oh, and by the way, let me know if I can help you out in anyway. From what I've heard, it can be hard to find certain things in Islands. Be happy to swing by the mall or Home Depot for a hard to find part or whatever. Thanks again.

Sincerely,
Jordan

It is safer here than Rochester N.Y. Been to nick Tahoes at 2am now thats scary. Lived in roch for 8 years before moving here 15 years ago. Never had a problem. You learn where to and not to go after dark . just use your head like in roch

In regards to the real estate issue, I would come down here and rent first. I want to buy something too-but you really need to get down here to see what areas you like and take the time to find a great deal.

I just looked at a condo last weekend that was a large 1 bedroom with a deck for $100,000 on the North Side. They have another great deal in the complex, it is two seperate apts sold as one in one building. The upstairs is a one bedroom with deck and great view. The downstairs is a two bedroom with deck. The downstairs needs about $7,000 worth of work though. Both are very sizable apartments. The association fee is only $125 which is very rare. So, you can get great deals but you have to be and dedicate the time to find them.

As for STT vs. STX. That's hard to answer. I think of STX as a sleepy beach community. I think it is charming-but it is very quiet and quite different from the hustle of STT. The thing I love is that on STT we are so close to STJ and the BVIs. I have gone to the BVIs the last 3 weekends in a row. It is so much fun. It depends what you are looking for. In general I would say STT has more job oppurtunities and a better economy.

Wages, again it depends on the industry. I am making more than I did in NYC. But, I am in a tourism related industry. My mother is not in a tourism related industry and is making the same as she did in NYC. From what I have heard though, yes you should expect to earn less here.

Local acceptance, I have some friends here that are newbies and a couple who have been here 20 years. Everyone is pretty nice. My experience has been that some of the locals can be exclusive and not that friendly-but that has been isolated instances and probably just certain people. I got frosty service in NYC alot too, you never quite know what the reason behind it is. It is not something I have spent much time thinking about because it really hasn't been an issue.

When are you planning to visit? During that time you should take a look at the real estate market. If you decide to rent first, rents are very reasonable here.

Thanks for the offer of picking up something. I can't think of anything I really need that I haven't been able to get. Believe it or not we have a Home Depot and 2 Kmarts here. I have NEVER shopped at Kmart, but I find myself there every week!:) There is also a couple of gourmet super markets. The only thing you can't really find here is decent clothes. I think Puerto Rico has comparable shopping to NYC and it is very close (30 minute flight). I travel alot for work so I do most of my clothes shopping in PR.

I hope that sheds some more light...

Jimbo,

The Nick Tahoe's on Main closes at 8PM nowadays. Do you think the people on the VI would be receptive to Garbage Plates? It's definitely one of the things I'll miss about Rochester. Glad to hear that crime isn't an issue, that will ease tensions here. The more thought we dedicate to this idea, the more real it seems. It's a big step to take but as I keep reminding everyone, life is short. Thanks for responding.

Jordan

Shawn,

Thanks again for your advice and comments. I think I saw the condo you were talking about online. Did it have cathedral ceilings? From what I saw it looked really nice. That's why I was confused about the whole cost of real estate thing. That placed looked incredibly nice and was around $100K. If we could find something in that price range, we'd be in much better shape as that's pretty much what our house here is worth. However, thank you for the suggestion about renting first - that does make a lot of sense and I think that's the route we'll take.

We plan on visiting sometime in either October or November of this year. We're trying to work out the details. We're planning on staying in and focusing upon STT for many of the reasons you listed. We'll probably come down for 7-10 days, rent a car and explore. Found out yesterday that my Father-In-Law has a cousin that has lived in STT for some 20 years now so perhaps we'll be able to crash with them, otherwise we'll probably stay at a B&B or rent a place.

Glad to know that the locales are receptive to newcomers. As I'm planning on moving down with company, it wouldn't be a huge issue if we weren't readily accepted. I had a college roommate from Hawaii. He teasingly called me a "Howley (sp?)", the Hawaiin term for people not native to the Islands. He said in Hawaii newcomers can be ostracized and that there is a strong sense of eminimity. Anyhow, the more I hear, the better the VI sounds.

All the material I've been reading says average temps stay around 80 degrees and there's relatively little humdity thanks to the trade winds. Is that true? I've been some places in the Tropics during the summertime where the heat and humidity have been somewhat oppressive.

If you think of anything you need, let me know. I read somewhere that there was opposition to Home Depot coming to the Islands but I guess that worked itself out. I bought a Christmas tree at Kmart this year. I hate cutting down and throwing away trees. Come to find out the Martha Stewart collection is actually pretty darn nice.

Thanks again for your posts. You've been a tremendous help.

Sincerely,
Jordan

Dear JD,

Locals are superficially receptive to newbies as long as they adhere to the local rules of politesse. Being considered as "a local" takes many years. You can become "a resident" much more quickly than you can become "a local."

I don't recall any REAL opposition to Home Depot coming in here. Some of the small hardware stores got their knickers in a twist, fearing they would be put out of business but since Home Depot now suffers from any other place where delayed shipments are concerned, they've just joined the local crowd and they're a definite boon to us, even if they don't have what we want all the time!

Christmas trees? Well, K-Mart ships in live trees every year, as do several other individuals and the poor little trees are sold out of huge trailers. Their aroma is awesome, their needles are bright green and the sap oozes from their cut trunks. And they die very quickly. Donkey's years ago when I came here I did get the "real" tree for a couple of years but then I segued into the artificial. A big change from someone raised in England and then transplanted to Connecticut, in both of which places I'd dig up my own and then put them back in the ground for a next year - but the tropics just kill them off and then you have to just dispose of this poor brown sere thing with some degree of angst.

As far as temperature is concerned, it depends on what you think of as being "oppressive" heat. It was very noticeable last year that "summer" and the depletion of the Trade Winds, came about much earlier than usual, i.e. in June rathe than around August. To me and many others it was rather cause for a degree of alarm because that would normally precede an active hurricane season. Having gone through Hurricane Hugo (which I thought was awful until Hurricane Marilyn came through in 1995) I'm very attuned to weather pattern changes. Fortunately for us, we were spared last year and, unfortunately, the hurricanes that passed us by hit Florida and other parts of the US mainland instead.

However,one contnually wonders and watches. The heat in the last few weeks has been reminiscent of the heat which started so early last year in June, i.e. two months earlier than last year and two months earlier than in several years past. We had an unprecedented amount of rain in January and February and now everything is dried up again. Go figure. The whole global weather pattern is changing with far more alacrity than it did in years past but that's not just in the Vrgin Islands but all over the world.

But enough of all that. Actually, insofar as traffic is concerned on St Thomas, one does tend to avoid being on the Weymouth Rhymer Highway coming from downtown between 4-6PM and also going towards downtown from 8-10AM. This "highway" connects the East End to the downtown area via Raphune Hill and it can be a real snarly ride during those hours when people are either going to or coming from work.

Well, I added my two cents as a 20 year resident and I wish you luck in your research and adventures. Hope I've been a little bit of help!

STT Resident,

Thanks for your post. The Lonely Planet travel guide did mention the local rules of politesse. It said in particular one should pay attention to one's dress. It said shorts and t-shirts are appropriate for the beach but not regarded as acceptable apparel in most other areas. Pressed slacks and a collared shirt are deemed more appropriate for casual dress. They also mentioned that it is considered polite to make some degree of sincere small talk during your daily interactions other than the prefunctory "thanks". Is that true? Seems like common sense to some but obviously behavorial "norms" vary from place to place. Have you ever driven in CA? Any other behavorial aspects we ought to be aware of when visiting and/or moving to the VI?

I agree the weather patterns do seem to be getting a bit abnormal. Supposedly we're entering another "El Nino" season (heard that on the weather channel). I don't know if it's true of the VI but they said the NE (of the US) should expect a long, hot, dry summer. We've been getting record rain falls up here this year and had plenty of snow the last couple of winters. I don't mind the rain but could live without the snow.

Thanks again for responding.

Respectfully,
Jordan

In most places, dress shorts and shirts are quite OK and that goes for restaurants too unless one is dining out in style at a more upmarket place, in which case long pants and a nice shirt would be de rigeur for a man while a simple dress (or a nice evening pants outfit) would be fine for a woman. I think you'll find the basic premise is NOT to wear beachwear unless you're on the beach.

When you ask if I've driven in "CA", I assume you mean Charlotte Amalie and not California? Well, yes, duh, having lived here for 20 years I've driven all over the island, so what's your question? Sorry. But in case you DID mean California, actually no. But I've driven all over New England and in New York City...ad other places..

As far as general politesse is concerned. just remember to say, "Good Morning," "Good Day" or "Good Evening/Night" before you start yakking. The "Good Night" can be a bit confusing and even after all my years living here and being very much part of the community, I don't use the "Good Night" version of, "Good Evening" because to me, "Good Night" is - well, GOOD NIGHT and ta-ta, as in I'm gone.

Which is a good point on which to end as I really do have a whole lot of stuff to accomplish before the sun sets! Cheers.

Dear STT,

I was referring to California. No worries. Thanks for the info. Adios.

Gang,

A few words of advice on places to live.

Remember that while condos may be cheaper to purchase, you will also need to pay the monthly maintenance fee on top of the mortgage. Because the cost of hurricane insurance is so outrageously high (we're paying almost $5k a year to insure a home and half the value of our belongings compared to the $330/year we paid for condo insurance in DC), condo fees are almost always more per month than the cost of owning the unit. Many condos also charge you for your water usage from the community cistern (water is a valuable, valuable resource -- you will learn to take navy showers and conserve), and don't forget that you can be billed for a special assessment on top of the regular fees if the association needs to rebuild damaged community property, etc.

Owning a house or renting will give you much more control over your finances. That said, listen to the real estate agent and plan on spending a minimum of $200k for a house in decent condition. Remember that the cost of electricity is really high, too -- we're living in three rooms while renovations are going on and we're paying just under $200 a month (we do not run any AC-just fans).

We knew we'd need to make renovations to whatever house we bought that was priced at $250k or below because we went and looked at a lot of places in a lot of neighborhoods, and there wasn't one in that price range that didn't need repairs, let alone upgrades. We're doing about $80k in renovations and improvements on our home, most of which were mandatory (replacing the roof and all of the louvered windows and screens, replacing a bathroom, and changing the floor plan to a more liveable arrangement (this was a single family home that became a duplex and then went back to a single family home -- to get from the kitchen to the living room, you had to cut through two bedrooms!) If you do find a home that is in the $100-$150k range that you plan to repair/renovate, get really good at being PATIENT, a skill essential to island life. We moved in to our house last June and selected a contractor that day to do the work needed. Actual renovations just started two weeks ago and have already been delayed for almost week because the one building inspector on the island "got lost" the first four days he said he would be out, and we just learned that the island supplier of cinder blocks ran out and won't be able to make more before next week. If you can still laugh, be nice to your wife and friends, and remain stress-free right after facing glitches and delays like that, you'll probably be fine. 😉

Re overall costs, STX is the more affordable island to live on, but the unemployment rate here is hovering around 10%. The cruise and tourism industries benefit STT and STJ far more than they do STX, so the unemployment rate tends to be lower there (especially during the season) but it costs a bit more to live there. We decided to make STX our home based solely on economics and found out from a pre-move visit that STX actually worked better than STT for us in all other quality of life categories, too.

The prep-move visist isn't a luxury, it's a necessity if you want to make choices you can live with for a long time. Renting first is a very good suggestion -- I strongly recommend that you hire a real estate attorney before you start working with an agent, and that you be on island throughout the puchase process so you can hire and manage an inspector and appraisor yourself. (Delegating this could be costly to you.) Others suggest putting your current belongings in storage, and then wait to move them down after you've been here for a while and know what you want for the long run after trying out different neighborhoods, being part of the job and social scene, determining your transportation needs, and getting first-hand experiences with the realities of daily life as a resident instead of a tourist (e.g. doing laundry, banking, grocery shopping, chasing lizards out of your house, killing the occassional centipede/millipede/moth/beetle/herd of mosquitos that have found their way inside your home, figure out what a cistern is, learn some of the customs of the majority West Indian culture, and interacting with the government -- an REAL experience, believe me). Even if you do make a pre-move visit, prepare for the fist year to be a real learning time -- it will go much easier if you aren't a type A personality that needs to control your environment. 🙂

Best advice for getting the real dirt is to buy the Settler's Handbook, run searches of this board for the wisdom on various topics that was shared by others who were in your shoes, and then ask lots and lots and lots of questions on this board about topics that haven't been covered. Tnhe stories of those making the move that are posted on thjis site are invaluable -- you can learn a lot about moving your dog from one of those stories.

It can be done, but it takes never-ending optimism and patience, at least $10k in cash for two people to use to get established down here, a couple thousand more to get you and your stuff down here, remember that you will get back from the natives and long term residents three fold of what you put forth, and are willing to embrace the local culture -- or at least quietly coexist with it -- instead of constantly comparing everything with/trying to change things to how life works in the US.

Hope that helps! I have never been happier or felt more at home than I have since moving to STX, and wouldn't trade being here for anything even though there are lots of things I wouldn't consider real benefits of island life. Am hoping to write a piece on our first year here -- you'll have to wait for that to find out what non-beneficial type things I had to learn about after moving here.

There's lots of good folks here to help, so don't be shy about asking!

HipCrip

Dear HipCrip,

Sounds as if housing will be more expensive than we had anticipated. One wonders how so many people manage to make the move given the fact that real estate is very expensive and average salaries tend to be lower than those on the mainland. Is everyone "house poor" in the Virgin Islands or have we missed the window of opportunity for regular folk to move, as only the wealthy can afford to do so? I'd prefer not to rent long term as we'd rather build some equity in a home. Condo fees didn't seem too bad on the real estate listings I've seen but perhaps many of the fees you mentioned are hidden. Are other people in a similar predicament? If we were to borrow $280K on a 30 year mortgage @ 6.5%, our monthly payment would be about $1770. That is pretty steep. I don't want to be rude and ask people to share their personal finances but any insight people can offer would be greatly appreciated.

We've already ordered the Settler's Handbook (thanks for the suggestion) and I'm getting pretty addicted to this message board; it's an incredible source of information and many thanks to all of the newbies, residents and locals of the VI that are willing to share their experiences, knowledge and wisdom regarding the VI and planning a move to them.

We plan on spending at least a year or more organizing the move but we realize no amount of preparation will truly prepare us for the actual experience of the move. We're certain it'll take a lot of getting used to but we're betting on the hope/dream that when all is said and done we'll be in a much happier place, as so many of the people who have made the move seem to be. I haven't seen many posts by people who were disgruntled with their choice to move to the islands.

I realize this may sound like a ridiculous question to those of you living in the VI but does every house have a cistern? I've noticed other posts by people lamenting that they hadn't familiarized themselves with the working of a cistern before moving to the VI. What should one do to better acquaint themselves with a cistern other than read about them? Or is that just something one has to wait to experience?

Would anyone care to elaborate on the insects in the VI. My wife read that the mosquitoes there have a disease, Deunge (sp?) or something. Is that pronounced "dang"? I've spent time in Costa Rica and seen all sorts of crazy bugs there including beetles that light up at night like a Coleman latern. Should we expect the same from the VI?

We also read that many people in the VI are afraid of pets and will intentionally try to inflict harm upon them. Are dogs generally unwelcome? Buck loves to swim and would probably enjoy the island life as much or more than us. Can anyone write more on this issue.

We appreciate everyone's advice and it is really helping us to refine our preliminary plans on a move to the VI. I know I sound like a broken record but I really can't thank you all enough for your input. Sorry for the long posts.

Regards,
JD

Condo fees are high because maintaining property in the tropics is expensive.

Heat, humidity, salt air, UV exposure, poor quality electrical power all work to screw everything up much faster in the VI than occurs in a more northerly non coastal climate. (Have you ever had to paint your refrigerator with Rust Oleum paint to stop it from rusting where you live now? Or have you ever had a power surge zap the solenoid on your refrigerator so it spewed ice water all over your kitchen all night? Sounds humorous, but when you pay $0.07 per gallon for water wasting severl hundred gallons adds up.)

Also you have landscapping and swimming pools to take care of year round here. There is no slack season.

You either pay the condo fees for the association to take care of the property or you pay your own gardner, painter, plumber, electrician, carpenter, etc.

If you own a single family home the difference in maintenance expense may depend on how much of the maintenance you do yourself. Even if you own a condo you will have extra costs just to maintain the interior of your unit.

If you want to read an interesting novel about living in the tropics and cisterns, read "Don't Stop the Carnival".

Jim

Jim Dandy,

I'd just assume not do all the work myself as I'm not much good at it nor do I have much patience for it. I actually manage several apartment communities in Rochester, NY and have seen all sorts of maintenance related calamities but haven't had to paint any refrigerators with Rustoleum paint yet. I'm well aware that there's a lot of work that goes into the maintenance of such communities. I also own my house and contract out most of the work as it is. Thanks for the advice, especially on the book. I'll give it a read.

JD