Liquor Laws

Drinking age is 18. No open container laws, you can drive with a drink in you hand but don't be drunk! Haven't heard of any liquor liablity laws as yet.

RL

What is a BAC driving limit?

Usually the only way people get DWI is if they have an accident and the police smell alcohol. No breathalyzer tests. The thing that saves drivers on St Thomas is that it is difficult to drive very fast.

Ronnie: I know a guy who was told he had to throw out his roadie. He just stopped at the next bar and got another.

BAC is blood alcohol content. In most states (if not all) it's been lowered to .08 from .10 which would equate to about the alcohol in the rum punch you're given when arriving at the airport before hopping into your rental car and driving on the other side of the road.

Kateastrophee, I'm not sure if I'm reading that right or not...are you saying the drink itself is about 10% alcohol, or it would give you a BAC or .10?

Here's a link to BAC readings...it's a good general guideline, but the best rule is just don't drink and drive!

http://www.intox.com/wheel/drinkwheel.asp

I was just kidding.

The rum punch is 90% Rum... so it depends on the percentage of alcohol in the type of rum chosen.

I think the tourists have an easier time emotionally accepting the driving on the left thing if they have a drink or two in them. Then they just go with the flow and don't panic and stress out at intersections trying to figure out which lane to turn into.

Alexandra,

You said, "I think the tourists have an easier time emotionally accepting the driving on the left thing if they have a drink or two in them. Then they just go with the flow and don't panic and stress out at intersections trying to figure out which lane to turn into."

Alcohol does not selectively dull one's sense of panic and/or stress but rather alcohol dulls all of one's senses. This means that drivers will be slower to anticipate problems and correct errors like inadvertently driving on the wrong side of the road. I would rather share the narrow, winding island roads with excessively alert and overly cautious visitors than with visitors whose thought processes and reflexes are compromised by alcohol.

Oops, sorry....my sense of humor was offline yesterday!

That was something also said somewhat in jest. We often tease new arrivals that the reason we drive on the left is because it's not illegal to drink while driving.

No matter which kind of visitors you would prefer to share the roads with, it is still a fact that many/most of them do try the various rum punch concoctions at the island beach bars and then drive themselves home on our windy, narrow roads that don't have many street signs to help them figure out where they are going. I wouldn't be surprised if we have as many or more accidents due to the road conditions and lack of street signs than we do ones where alcohol is truly to blame. I frequently see sober people stop suddenly in traffic to consult a map or crane their neck about trying to figure out if the road they just passed was the one they wanted.

It's definitely not a good idea to get hammered and then start up a car. Fortunately traffic moves slowly on most roads here and drivers who are slightly under the influence have a little more reaction time than they would at twice the rate of speed. Nobody wants to be on the road with a bunch of drunk drivers. However, we need to face the facts that here many drivers will have had *something* to drink, some more than others.

That makes the message to tourists: be careful, don't overdo it, keep your eye on what the other driver is doing, and maybe avoid the darkest, windiest roads late at night. Also be aware that those rum punch drinks may taste like fruit juice, but they have a higher alcohol content than anything you drink on the mainland, so each drink will affect you stronger.

Alexandra,

Just because, "many/most [visitors] do try the various rum punch concoctions at the island beach bars and then drive themselves home on our windy, narrow roads" does not mean that drinking and driving is reasonable behavior. Our slower than mainland driving speeds or the fact that island roads are poorly marked with few directional signs does not mean that drinking and driving is reasonable behavior. You contend that, "we need to face the facts that here many drivers will have had *something* to drink, some more than others" but acknowledging this fact does not make drinking and driving reasonable behavior. Those who choose to drink and drive kill and injure exponentially more people than those who drive sober. Since you allude to the idea that you consider driving "slightly under the influence" to be a relatively harmless fact of island life, would you feel any animosity toward the visitor who has some rum punch at the airport and then "accidentally" runs over and kills your child on the way to their resort?

If we took everyone off the road who had a drink or two who would drive all the tourist around? Surely not the taxi drivers who stop periodically to pick up a Heinekeen. Why do you think every convenience store on St. Thomas has a bottle opener at the cash register? So you can crack open that classic bottle of Coke!! Not hardly.
Do we advise the tourist to get hammered and drive in the U.S.V.I.? Heck no and for the most part a large portion of them take the taxis when vacationing. I have lived here going on two years now and dont recall reading or hearing about a drunk driver killing anybody. I am actually amazed there are not more accidents on the roads considering the way some people drive ie..passing on blind corners and speeding thru stop signs and driving home drunk. The only time you really read about a DUI is when someone crashes their car.
If you want to break down statistics according to the U.S. Dept of Transportation there were 42,636 traffic fatalities in 2004 of which 16,694 involved alcohol which means that nearly 2/3 of all traffic fatalities involved sober people.

dntw8up -- For some reason, you take personal offence when someone states a simple fact. Vacationers... and locals... do have alcohol to drink sometimes and then drive. I never said it was "reasonable behavior". I never said it was "relatively harmless". For some reason you feel it is reasonable behavior to put words into my mouth. I disagree.

The "just say NO" campaign hasn't done the job anywhere, and certainly not here. Tourists come to the islands at least in part to have a few drinks and party some of the time they are here. However you feel about them doing that, what I said was that it happened, not that you should condone it.

Because the laws are what they are here, I feel it is good for people to arrive with their eyes open, aware that some of the drivers on the road will be under the influence. It's also good for them to be aware that the rum punches contain a LOT more alcohol than the taste might make them think.

Perhaps you should be a little less quick to flame some of the people who post here. Especially when your complaints about their postings aren't appropriate to what they actually said.

David,

Your statistics are correct for driving legally drunk, which for a typical 170 lb. man would entail the consumption of four drinks on an empty stomach in one hour to attain a .08% BAC. Obviously a rum punch at the airport is unlikely to qualify someone as driving drunk. Nevertheless, even that single rum punch can impair a driver's ability to respond to situations and a delayed response can be the difference between a safe trip and an accident. Your argument that taxi drivers drink and drive, convenience stores facilitate drinking and driving, and those who drink and drive on island have been lucky in that they have not yet experienced any negative outcomes from drinking and driving does not make drinking and driving responsible behavior. Just because a great many people do something illegal and nobody in authority exercises their power to protect the public from the illegal activity does not mean that those who commit the crime are absolved of their personal responsibility.

Alexandra,

You said, " Tourists come to the islands at least in part to have a few drinks and party some of the time they are here. However you feel about them doing that, what I said was that it happened, not that you should condone it."

I welcome visitors to the islands and I have no problem with anyone drinking as long as they let someone sober drive.

In an earlier post you said, "Fortunately traffic moves slowly on most roads here and drivers who are slightly under the influence have a little more reaction time than they would at twice the rate of speed."

Since our traffic moves slowly on most roads, ALL drivers, drunk or sober, have more reaction time than they would at a high rate of speed and since alcohol slows one's response time, inebriated drivers will inevitably respond more slowly that sober drivers to driving hazards.

You also accuse me of putting words in your mouth.

In your post you make allowances for drivers who are only "slightly under the influence" suggesting that you recognize degrees of intoxication and deem some degrees more acceptable than others for drivers. This is a logical inference on my part, not a matter of putting words in your mouth. I do not consider any degree of intoxication acceptable for drivers. I recognize that an evening spent with a bottle of rum is likely to make it impossible for someone to drive safely and an evening spent with a case of rum is likely to kill an individual and it is not difficult to extrapolate that an evening spent with a glass of rum will slow, to some degree, the sense acuities necessary to perform optimally behind the wheel of a vehicle. Compromised senses are dangerous, especially in an unfamiliar place, something most people acknowledge when, for example, they talk about being aware of their surroundings when they walk around town after dark. Since driving is an activity that puts the lives of strangers in the hands of every driver I think it only fair for every driver to drive with as much awareness and caution as he can muster.

I'm sorry you consider my responses to your posts "flaming" and "[in]appropriate." I think my responses have been entirely appropriate and directly on point.

Illegal activity? If it were ILLEGAL to drink and drive even with a BAC below the current specific LEGAL maximum BAC limit, or if it were illegal to drive in the islands WHILE consuming an alcoholic beverage, then your reference to illegal activity might make sense.

Which brings us back again to the facts. The liquor laws in the islands are less strict than on the mainland. Drivers here who are under the influence to some degree are often still below the legal BAC. Legally they are not breaking any laws. Those who are above the legal BAC should not be driving.

Tourists may wind up driving over the legal BAC due to consuming stronger beverages than they are used to or expecting. Being aware of the true ratio of alcohol to juice in their drinks might help some to avoid a problem.

allowances? Again... stating that something occurs is not the same thing as making allowances for it. And "slightly under the influence" is a way of describing people who have had a drink or two but are still below the legal BAC. Saying they have a little more reaction time than if they were traveling at twice the rate of speed is simple math, again not condoning anything. Yes there are degrees of intoxication. Someone who has had one drink is at a different level of intoxication than someone who has had 10 drinks in the same period. Again, it's simple math. While you personally do not accept ANY degree of intoxication in drivers as acceptable, the law does.

From the postings of yours that I have read on this message board, most are abusive towards the poster you are responding to. Why is that?

Alexandra,

It is unfair to characterize my disagreement with your position as "abuse." I am participating in a public discussion forum and believe it is permissible to politely express a dissenting perspective. Your arguments fall back on "the law," which is one point of view. My arguments are grounded in "personal responsibility," which is another point of view. Someone else may base their contentions on "hedonism," suggesting that whatever they can get away is okay, a third point of view. I welcome discussion about important matters because I still have alot to learn. With respect to driving while impaired, I too know "the law" but as Ronnie mentioned, there are no open container laws in the VI and I do not think that the fact that a driver can legally drive in the VI while drinking means it is safe to do so. This is one of the reasons I deem arguments from the perspective of "the law" insufficient with respect to drinking and driving.

All this debating has made me thirsty. I am going to go polish off a few cold beers and drive around the Northside testing my reaction time.

Cheers!

David contends that this discussion has made him thirsty so he's going to drink a few beers and drive around the Northside. Angela is offended by Alexandra's remark but Tedd thinks Alexandra's remark is meant to be " light hearted and in jest." Perhaps this discussion boils down to what one finds amusing. Presumably someone who has had a loved one killed by a drunk driver will find substantially less amusement value in the issue of drinking and driving than someone who values the non-existence of a VI container law and regularly enjoys a beer while driving home from work. Our experiences color our perspectives and my only hope is that those who choose to drink and drive do not harm others with whom they share the roads.

Guess, there is the Law and then there is the dntw8up law. When do I get to make to make a law?

Just to put in my two cents here and hopefully NOT get involved in this melee about who says what and is chastized by whoever for saying it, etc. and then all this backchat ensues and everyone gets up on their soapboxes...

I'm a restaurant/bar owner on STT. I don't agree with some mainland States which have passed legislation to hold both bartenders and bar owners legally liable if they allegedly "over-serve" a patron to such an extent that he or she goes out drunk, gets into a vehicle and subsequently causes a fatal accident.

I personally don't need a law to tell me to cut off an alcoholic drink for anyone who has obviously had too much already. That's a moral judgement which I'm perfectly capable of making - and indeed SHOULD make if necessary - and which my bartenders are aware of.

If anyone left my place smashed, got into their vehicle, drove away from here and - because they were drunk - slammed into another vehicle and caused either death or massive injury to someone else, that would be on my head - just morally. And that would gnaw at me far worse than any legal clause.

It's fortunate that I've only been faced with this problem just a few times in the almost ten years that I've had my place. I've taken away car keys from a few people, called a taxi and had them transported home (sometimes at my expense!) I once asked for police assistance when a customer refused to give me his keys and, two hours later he still refused to give me his keys and was nodding at the bar.

The police were great, the customer got home safely via taxi, picked up his car the next day and nobody was the worse for wear.

The majority of "snowbirds" who come here for seasonal bartending gigs are here just here for season and need to make as much money as possible in order to support themselves during their short time here and you can't blame them! The more they sell the more they make in tips and why on earth would they care about the drunk who staggers out? It ain't their problem!

Management more often than not turns a blind eye because all they're concerned about is the ching ching of the register and the night's revenue.

Well, as I said, just my two cents!

David:
Thank You for having a Great sense of Humor.Sure got a smile out of me and I don't even drink,LOL!!!LA

Why can't we all just get along?
I personally agree that no amount of "everyone does it" is any kind of reason to not fight drunk driving tooth and nail! We have hideous accidents here all too often and alcohol plays a major role in most of them.
We also have desperate problems here with diabetes and again alcohol is stage front and center.
That said...it's all in the delivery of the message. we are all adults here and I don't think anybody needs to be chastised. Remember, you can win people over to your point of view with a good reasoned argument and pleasant supportive demeanour!
if you are combative, then people turn away and cease to listen.
It's human nature, dude!