"life is hard" elsewhere

Joanna -

I am going to refer you (with a nudge from Hip Crip, who has been a constant source of info for me for two years) to my note and Hip's under Stewart's thread about "Desire to Live in the V.I."

I will balance this with STT Resident's thought which we discussed some yesterday - that the rest of the world may be in such a mess this may indeed BE paradise. Nonetheless, I stick by my statements...but then again, as one only having been here for a year, I'm a relative newbie myself. We're not trying to scare anyone off - but forewared is forearmed. I bemoaned to a board poster only yesterday that I wished we had paid attention - not that our decision to come would have been any different, but it's very strange to wake up one day and realize you have given up the only life you've ever known. Maybe I'm just an old dog having trouble learning new tricks?

I realize you have a long-term goal to live on STX - and I don't mean to sound fussy, but you're not here full time yet - it is SO different being here every day for a VERY long time that there isn't enough room on this forum to explain the differences! However, STT Resident's recent post on the attrition rate is most likely right on the money. The reasons people come are all the same - the reasons they leave vary greatly.

Hi Joanna!

I was literally in the middle of leaving a suggestion that your terrific question be moved to it's own thread so more people see it when my computer decided to reboot itself. And low and behold when I got back on line, poof -- here it is!

Becky R left a great response that touches on the issues you address in Stewart's post about wanting to move to the VI, and I have asked her to consider cross-posting here. While she considers that, I'm going to go ahead and put my donkey (my followup reply) before Becky R's "cart" post. Hopefully it won't be too confusing having the two appear out of order as mine is definitely based on Becky's sharp insights.

One of the reasons I believe that the messages sometimes feel as though they tip heavily toward the warnings is that many of us, as you know, have gone through the whole process already, and we know from our personal experiences that it's very easy for folks to see the really great things but it's much harder for them to come to terms with the fact that the downsides we speak of WILL affect them in some way, at some point in time. I certainly believed I listened to all of the heads up advice and came with a true belief that things were going to be nothing like anything else I'd known before. Yet in the back of my mind there was still this little voice that kept saying, "yeah, that may be the case but these good intentioned folks just have no idea how much medical crap I've endured in m y life, and compared to that, anything "negative" about island living has got to be easier to handle. Besides, can't a day at the beach with the trade winds, crystal blue/green water and blue skies make everything better?

ANSWER: NOPE, not even close on either front.

In her post, Becky R nailed the common thread between folks who've been here for just a few years: figuring out we didn't really have a clue about the reality of living here no matter how much prep we did. What I mentioned above is a common thread among the folks who are in the pre-move stage of the process: a belief that some life experience they have gives them a level of immunity from needing to adjust to the different, and sometimes difficult, island way of life. For some, it's coming from an area with expensive COL, others have grown up with tornadoes, a few have lived on a different island (Puerto Rico, small islands off of the coast of Washington State, etc.), several have claims to living in cities in which they are the ethnic minority and/or stagnant, corrupt governments, and a sampling believe living in rural areas is what will allow them to skip some of the hard times that are part of adapting. Heck, I myself laid claim to at least three of those previous life situations, and I let the advice of the "been through this before you - trust me when I say those experiences have NOTHING to do with life in the USVI" crowd's advice pass through my brain without sticking. Boy, how right the "been there" folks are, and how arrogantly naive I was!

Even though I have had a pretty easy adjustment (far easier than some of peers from this board, I have certain had some rude awakenings, especially in the area of getting medical care. My hope is that if I keep pushing the reality that it's not at all like vacationing down here (even if you winter down here for 3 months or so), the newer folks to the board will try to let go of their beliefs that they've ever done anything that's even remotely the same as living long-term on these islands, and come ready to ask questions, listen, learn and put into practice the customs and ways things get done here instead of constantly comparing them to "how it's done back where I come from." The Arby's slogan from a few years back is right: different is good, if you can let go of what you think you know and experience the move and adjustment like kids see the world: eyes wide open and taking it all in with a sense of wonder and excitement.

--HC

Hi Joanna.

"Every once in a while, I wonder whether the difficulties of island living are so emphasized in this forum, that you could scare away folks who can handle them. After all, "life is hard" everywhere..."

We can't win. Some posters, like "jane", think we paint too rosy a picture on this board of life in the USVI; she lived here for a while and has now moved back to the mainland. Other posters, like you, think we overstate the difficulties of living here but most who feel this way don't actually live here yet. Maybe after you've spent a few months living here you'll give us your educated opinion about whether you think we understate or overstate the challenges of living here.

My educated guess is that you will quickly fail to find delight in the shortness of the list of difficulties you encounter in STX as that list will be longer rather than shorter than you expected and far more complicated. In any case, if anyone is scared away by what they read here they are likely better off not coming as what is posted here is only a small sample of what living here is really like; those of us who do live here do not discuss most of our difficulties because nobody likes whiners:)!

Nicely put (as usual), dntw8up.

--HC

ooh, I have quotation marks now!!!! Yay!
Actually I think that the board is just about where it needs to be, and that is finally a recognization that the Islands are probably not for those who have "encumbrances".
Namely, health issues, school age kids etc. I do still believe that certain posters were definitely erring on the side of the too "rosy". I was there for five years, I guess that could be described as a while.
I am looking at the recent posts and I see a much clearer picture of what it is like to really live in the VI.
I also agree with the poster who suggested that Alexandra should identify herself as a realtor so that people can judge her opinions knowing her "slant".

jane,

Everyone has "encumbrances" of one sort or another and yet many of us live here happily. I'm sorry you were unhappy here but you do not speak for my friends and I. You specifically mention that island life is probably not for folks with school age children or health issues but I am a parent with health issues and am very content living here. That said, if the health, education and employment needs of my family and myself could not be adequately met here I would leave, as many locals and transplants do. Like many folks who live here, I have always lived simply in order to maintain sufficient savings in case a serious problem should arise that requires immediate, extended attention on the mainland. Living here is certainly not for everyone but many of us who live here are happy to be here.

Hi Jane,
I'm not sure what you mean by your comment about Alexandra. What does "judging her opinions by knowing her 'slant';" mean? Is it appreciating her comments in line with her special perspective as a knowledgeable experienced realtor, or prejudicing her comments as if there was a hidden ulterior motive because she is a realtor? I couldn't tell because of the tone of your post.
Thanks,

With all due respect, jane, I am about the most health encumbered person most people will ever know. Came to this totally crip-unfriendly in a wheelchair with a rare spinal cord problem that will likely result in paralysis from the neck down, two chronic lung diseases and prone to frequent lung (and other) infections, unable to drive my car anymore, in chronic pain requiring five heavy duty pain meds to manage it well enough to get by from day to day, an implanted medical device that requires several trips a year to PR to maintain plus trips to the mainland every 7-10 years to replace, and a history of cancer of the central nervous system. The island lacks many specialists that I should be seeing regularly (such as a pulmonologist). There isn't a doctor on island willing to take on management of my pain control needs, and several have outright refused to accept me as a patient because I'm "too complicated." One general health care provider to whom I was referred, and who showed much promise in terms of personality and willingness to help try to keep me going, accepted me as a patient without ever telling me that he/she was in the process of moving off island. (I found out about this provider's departure only by calling the office to get a follow-up appointment.)

Yet I couldn't be more happy with living here -- I'm far more at peace here than anywhere else I've lived, and positively loathe having to go back to the mainland for even a short while because I can no longer cope with rapid pace of live, the traffic (even having to drive through Charlotte Amalie pushes me to the brink of my sanity), the dramatic variations in temperature anywhere with seasons or in hot places that have freezing AC in every building and vehicle, and most of all the the overwhelming rudeness and self-centeredness I get from the statesiders. Sure, it requires trade-offs and sacrifices (frankly, it's damn hard to be unable to get into most downtown shops; the homes and apartments/condos of most of my friends; many of the more private beaches and points of interest like the Fort, and the bars, restaurants and hotels my friends like to frequent). But the things I love about being here make it more than worth never being able to afford to take another vacation or some of the luxury items I used to buy without worry to pay for my travel to PR to see the best pain doc I've ever had, afford paying for $15k a year in prescription drugs (since I'm uninsurable locally and am without RX coverage until I'[m eligible for Medicare sometime next year, and trying to save enough to ensure my hubby can stay home to help care for me for as we spend the rest of our lives right here.

Not everyone with serious health concerns (or children, aging parents, specialized careers, etc) will feel the same, but it's far from the truth to imply that having such circumstances means you will be totally incompatible with life on a small rock in the middle of the Caribbean. Being informed about all this is critical, but to me, seeing firsthand if it will work for you is the only way to know for sure if your encumbrances are going to keep you from being at peace here.

Island Ed,

jane is referring to posts Alexandra and I made in a similar discussion that's taking place in Stewart's "Want to move to to the VI" thread.

--HC

Thanks HC, I'll review them there.
HC, are you on STT or STX?

IE,

Happily based in the Sunny Isle region of STX for the last 2.25 years.

--HC

I watched this thread grow today, as I wondered what it was/is about stx (and probably STT, but never lived there) that makes it so very hard to live here., and yet such a great place to be for those for whom it works. All I thought when I read the first post was that it IS hard, and I'm sure more folks come and go than come and stay, although they all may have come intending and expecting to stay long-term. Many leave, each for their own reasons, and things that wouldn't be deal-breakers in the states can be the final straw for folks here, as the little things do mount up. YET, I can't identify what it is that makes some of us stay, whether it's that we can deal with the downs better than some due to support networks or attitudes about life in general, or just don't have the outside forces working against finding contentment in stx, like elderly parents, or financial issues, or stateside grandchildren, or whatever.... I know the same thing happens with folks who move to Florida, or California, and find it not the Eden they "knew" it would be, but usually they can go back generally to where they came from without a major hassle, and they can hop in a car and drive somewhere to get away for a while. One problem here, and perhaps one reason why so many of the folks on this board say to be cautious in the manner of doing a move, is the expense. Look at what is suggested as a sum of money to have before you try to move here, and think of what happens when that money is gone--in shipping, rent deposits, living expenses while job hunting, perhaps a lower paying job---and then, after 6 months or a year (and I do agree with STT Res, though 3 years seems to be an itch time too) you decide this is not the place for you--it costs to go back! Now, if you've been living lower, as can happen because of the ofttimes higher expenses/lower pay scale dilemma, that bundle of cash might not be there. It's great if you bought a wisely selected piece of real estate lately, and have increased your equity, but it took us 16 years after Hugo to get one of our condos up to 90% of the price we paid for it 17 days before the storm, when things were booming even more than they are now--and that was a good property, and one of several that we had no problem holding onto until the right time! In the past year the values have gone even higher, but we sweat every September. What about those who didn't have the cushion we did? some of them were really hurting, and their options would be limited. Even considering that I am fortunate enough to live in a rather secure situation, I found when living and working full time in STX that it could really be a challenge in attitude and atmosphere as much as in infrastructure, something that can be hard to deal with and hard to explain to a newby. And I had "connections" of sorts, and contacts, and all the things that many others miss when they come. We're still here, though not and probably never again full time, (and that changes things immensely), we still invest in the island and its people, support our chosen candidates, --and are even crazy enough to be building a new house...and don't know anywhere else we'd rather spend more than half our time.....
Even one of my sons, who grew up doing school in the states and summers and vacations on STX, and who along with his brothers had the eternal refrain that "going to St Croix is NO vacation" has his weak moments when he and his wife come for their winter week visiting us--their thoughts seem to turn to "there must be some sort of business they could open so they could move here and raise a family..." The appeal of the island can be like a drug, just don't let it overpower all your other senses.

Hi beachy.

I think you're right about the challenge of living here being attitude and atmosphere as much as infrastructure. If someone were to investigate those who moved here from the states and have lived here for many years I suspect those individuals would all have some common personality quirks. Most of the folks I know who moved here from the mainland and have lived here for years are mavericks (extremely independent), believe that living life fully involves taking risks, enjoy their own company (solitude) at least as much as they enjoy the company of others, and have learned how to pick their battles and how to accept what they choose not to fight. These are familiar concepts but applying them to one's life is much more difficult than understanding them intellectually. If someone lacks one of these personality quirks I suspect that living here long-term would be extraordinarily difficult.

Dear Friends:

What an interesting discussion, one in which there are really no rights or wrongs, but rather how people relate to the type of life (which also varies from person to person, what they can afford, where they live etc.) that is available. For several months, this has been the exact conversation I have had with another "poster".

I want to thank people who have posted for years on this board. It drew a picture of island life. What it did not draw was how I personally would fit into the island life, or how to find my way. Again, like other people who have posted, I did not come here with a perfect life. I am disabled and need medical care. During my first two weeks on STX, I was in the ER six times. For anyone who knows the ER, that was not pleasant. The phone was not on, nor the electricity, so I was crippled and camping out both.

This island works for me. That much I know is true. It is not the paradise in terms of full time living that is espoused by the real estate agents, with all due respect, but it has a lot of elements of a wonderful topical island life that does fit who and what I am. I see the negatives that I have read, and experienced, as challenges rather than something terminal. I am at heart a free spirit, independent even with the disability, self determined and in love with diversity.

I created a treatment team to surround me and meet my medical needs, and should something be more intense in terms of need, have made arrangements to receive the care I need. For me, medical care could have been a dead end, but I was determined to see how it could work rather than whine about it being a problem.

As every person is different, and relates differently to various sets of cultures, challenges within the culture, governance, etc., the bottom line, regardless of how many PMV's one has done is the answer to two questions.

Does this island fit me?

Do I fit the island?

If the answer is yes, then probably this venture will work. You, like myself, will make it work and let go of the things that are out of our hands.

If the answer is no, you may still move here, but it will be like trying to fit a square peg in a round hole.

I believe this is true for anywhere and any situation in which someone actually has a choice over where they live. Many people have no choice. Those of us on the board did or do have a choice, and we choose every day.

I lived in SC for five years before coming here. Beautiful and with beaches, and I hated every moment. I did not feel like I fit, and therefore obstacles became crises instead of challenges. My heart was not in it. Ever.

Moving here, I felt the first day like I had finally, after 45 years, come home. I still feel that way today, but in someways even more deeply.

As a final note, people who leave I do not think is a reflection on the islands. It is a reflection on them and who they are as people. This just wasn't a fit. In turn, they did the clinically correct thing and moved on to try again. It is not a failure for them, or a statement about the islands. It is the relationship between them and the islands that didn't work. Period.

I am exhausted, so I hope at least some of this makes sense. I had to comment as this thread was so compelling to read.

Again, so many thanks to you all for helping me to get around the obstacles, and I thank God for giving me the opportunity and the fortitude to make a nest in a place I love so much.

Warmly,

Dan

I was reading through the posting to my wife Joanna's "life is hard" posting and really enjoying the interesting and thoughtful responses. I must say that your statement about people leaving the island is simply the result of an incompatibility. "It is not a failure for them or a statement about the islands. It is the relationship between them and the islands that didn't work." Bravo! That seems quite on point. It reminds me of something like a blind date. It can sometimes work out and the people fall in love, or more likely they just are not meant for each other and they part sometimes with bitterness. The more quirky the folks coming together on the blind date are, the less likely they are to fall in love, ie the probability for compatibility decreases with eccentricity.

Now from what I know of the island of St Croix and of some of the people that move there to live from stateside, we are talking about some very significant quirkiness. It doesn't surprise me that most of the people that come to live with St Croix from stateside eventually break up with her. They are passionately in love at the beginning of the relationship. It's like the sex is great but after a period of time the novelty wears off and they begin to notice her bad habits. St. Croix is no saint. But neither are the statesiders that come to propose marriage.

So they split up. Or they fall in love. It really is of little meaning to the next prospective blind dater. So I agree that all this warning stuff should just be limited to facts and figures not subjective attitudes. It is just not really helpful to hype a person either way before the night of their first date.

"Do not ask what is it. Let us go and make our visit"

I'm glad that some of what I posted made sense. It is hard (very) to describe the feeling that comes along with either moving here and wanting to live nowhere else, or finding it a daily struggle. A very wise woman spoke about lasting love, and said it is with "the person you want to wake up and have coffee with for the rest of your life". Although it might not be true for some, or many, I can't imagine having my coffee anywhere else as I sit here and type, early in the morning, listening to the 'clicking' of the palm leaves, having mango preserves ready for my toast (1 gallong costs about $3- if you buy from the open air markets and from people who just have too many mangos to deal with), and planning my day without the panic I always felt stateside.

Yes, it is like a long-term marriage. Some of my quirks, people just ignore of put up with. Some of the quirks of island living, I do the same.

Best wishes again,

Dan

Fascinating how people have so many different takes.

Joe Chelli imakes his point, ..."all this warning stuff should just be limited to facts and figures not subjective attitudes" by quoting, "Do not ask what is it. Let us go and make our visit"

Conversely, one of my personal favorites for decades is one attributed to a Mr. William Whyler who said, "The 'isness' of things is well worth kowing but it is the 'whyness' which makes life worth living."

Cheers to all. And now onto another day in Paradise. Weedwhacking after the recent rains got things growing like mad, shopping, bank, P.O., hunting down a mechanical thingie which will probably take a visit to three or four different places, a funeral to stop into, etc. Going to the beach or pool and burying self in book? Ah, what a fantasy! Maybe tomorrow...

"So I agree that all this warning stuff should just be limited to facts and figures not subjective attitudes. It is just not really helpful to hype a person either way before the night of their first date."

Joe, I had to laugh at that one..out loud! First, the comparison has a royal visual attached to it - second, none of us would go on that first date without the quickening of the pulse, the thought that maybe this could be "it"...sometimes we keep on dating even when we know in our gut there may be something amiss...and you are correct...sort of...; either the marriage works or it doesn't, but I tend to disagree with this statement. It may work, but situations can change that make a different choice the "right" thing to do at any point in time, and no one can predict that...However, courting the islands is a costly proposition... be sure you can take that risk. On the other hand, the only chances you lose are the ones you don't take....which is where those with a bit of gypsy feet come into play and arrive here full of new hope.

I disagree that this should be a forum of facts and figures...ho hum...it's the differences that make it interesting. Ric said in another post that while this appears to be a family squabble, any of the contestants in this match would gladly go to the mat for another, and that is ever so true. With the impending storm, we will get to watch the "togetherness" of the island take shape...in spite of differences or quirks, we love the islands and all that they are, were, or may mean to us in the future. You can't plant your feet here for any period of time without reveling in the positives. Anyway, that's my thought as I head out to stock up some more on batteries, water, gas for the generator, foods that can be heated easily...and plan on bringing in the grill, the patio furniture, parking the cars in the safest area should the tropical storm come to worse...getting down a few errant coconuts...finding those darn tarps...going to the bank for cash "just in case"...well, you get the picture!

Wish I could leave you with a deep, thought provoking quote...unfortunately, most of my profound thoughts are found in country music...well, how's this one?

..."Life is not measured by how many breaths we take, but by the places and moments that take our breath away."

Daniel
Reading your post makes me feel all the feeling that I have for STJohn seem real.
I see that your a professional , can you please help me out.
Not sure if you have seen my post about my deep love for STJohn and that I had to leave(premature).
Why do I have daily thoughts and am always plotting my next move , even though I know that ist not a reality , just at this time and I feel so frustrated?
Why has a place captured my heart and mind so deep? Friends & Family are like enough ,already attitude.
My kids didnt want to move there at first and now , my daughter is not wanting to return ,(she' the only one left there and I secretly want her to stay so that I have a tie, selfish? )
Please can you share you thoughts with me , I wished and feel like I should have been born there, I get along with the locals much better than transplants.
I really have it bad , dont smoke , drink (well a little cruzan here and there most at woodys happy hour on my days off) and I feel like an addict to my life I had on STJohn and want it back . I cried when I fly out of StThomas . and when I see StJohn I feel so elated . I really got it bad. HELP.

..."Life is not measured by how many breaths we take, but by the places and moments that take our breath away."

So true and really true when it comes to St John.

Thanks for all the thoughtful commentary.
Good luck with the TS Chris... I am taking notes!!
-- Joanna

Daniel
I cannot believe that you wanted to charge me to talk about my love for st john!!!!!!!

Daniel
Reading your post makes me feel all the feeling that I have for STJohn seem real.
I see that your a professional , can you please help me out.

Dear Yolanda:

I sorry that this may have upset you. Given your statement above, it seemed to me a call for help in a professional rather than board posting capacity. As such, I privately messaged you that I would be more than willing to

A. Answer general questions just to help

and/or

B. Provide counseling if that what what you were seeking.

I honestly do not understand your offense taken to this, however, as you have made it now clear that this does not pertain to my profession, please feel free to ask any questions via the board and I will assist.

Dan

You have GOT to be kidding, Yolanda...right? You specifically asked for Daniel's professional help and then are offended that he might want compensation? If you want to talk about St. John, babble on....but you made a public/professional cry for help, he responded, and now you're offended. Okey-dokey...