For the lawyers on here, a quick question about something legal

Thanks ms411! That is exactly what I was looking for. I did explain to the lady what I was looking for i.e. assign a beneficiary to my bank account. I did also name it as payable on death and in trust account. Maybe the type of account I have (ideal acct) wouldn't let me do this but the lady was not very helpful in explaining way I could nor do this. If I have the time and energy I might go back, armed with the info you supplied.

More than likely, they would prefer you use their Trust Services. I read through their service agreement and no mention of POD - just joint and/or accounts with explanations. I checked the Trust section and it's not listed there, either.

http://www.popular.com/en/personal-trust/

Thanks for all the research! I also checked their website and could not find any info either. A call to Banco Popular in Puerto Rico was not helpful either, as the man I got on the phone did not know English very well and trying to explain POD did not generate any helpful information.

I don't think the Code says banks have to offer them, and in all honesty, I haven't seen references to them in decades. The section of the Code was probably written decades ago!

All you hear about now are trusts.

Ms411,

"VI code?"

Wolverine, can you be more specific with your question?

In lieu of POD, most people here designate another account owner as OR instead of AND.

Ms411,

"VI code?"

VI Code is the set of laws that cover the VI.

Joint accounts are generally a bad idea. Putting others on your deed as "joint tenants with rights of survivorship" is also a bad idea. It exposes the assets to every creditor and claimant (think, divorce, car accident) against the person you added.

Proper utilization of Trusts and LLC's in the Virgin Islands is critical. "Any" attorney can draw one up. Just like "any" attorney can defend a murder charge, defend you on an SEC charge in a Ponzi scheme, or handle a divorce. But they might have no idea what they're doing outside of their normal practice area. I've seen a lot of pretty bad Trusts in the Virgin Islands that need fixing.

Another "retiree" issue is Medicaid. You own property in a revocable living trust, it is still YOU. You can revoke it at any time. So the only protection is from Probate and the creditors of your beneficiaries (IF it is properly drafted). You or your spouse applies for long term care Stateside, the property is "counted" against you. 75% of the people in Nursing Homes in America are on Medicaid. Trust has to be irrevocable, and be in existence for 5 years (3 years if applying for MediCal) before the property is protected from "countability." But I digress unnecessarily.

I don't believe there is any reason Banco can't offer a TOD/POD account. Bring in a death certificate and they should turn the funds over. I'd want to see a checking account application. Again, for obvious reasons, "joint" accounts can be devastating.

There are a lot of misconceptions regarding estate planning, Trusts, asset protection and probate avoidance. Few people manage "complete" probate avoidance because once your Trust is settled, and before you pass away, you tend to acquire additional property and assets. HUGE problem in the V.I. Old Aunt Gert passes away without a will, her estate gets divided and all of a sudden your estate has real estate in it as a tenant in common with other heirs. I have seen this "problem" compounded back to the early 1900's. Multiple individuals in family lines that never had a will amongst them. This is where the problem (and expense) of Partition rears its ugly head.

I've only seen a couple of attorneys in the V.I. actually do "pour-over wills" in conjunction with their "Trusts," which don't avoid probate completely, but direct your Executor/trix to "pour" everything else you got after you settled (AND FUNDED) your Trust, into the Trust. Probate touches nothing that was actually already in the Trust. FUNDING is key. If you put nothing in the Trust, no Trust exists. I've seen that several times. If (as I have also seen) you do not name a TRUSTEE, there is nothing "held in Trust" by the Trustee. The Trustee holds legal title to the property funded into the Trust, in their OWN NAME "as trustee". Legally constrained by the terms of the Trust. The Trust is just a bucket that holds things. The Trustee, owning the property, has the authority to reach into the bucket and distribute it as directed by the Trust document.

I would say I could probably get an ATM Card as "John Smith, Trustee of the XYZ Trust" if I wanted one. You have now identified the responsible individual. That's all they want whether they know it or not. But we all know how things go at the V.I. Banks. It would undoubtedly take awhile.

Sorry, about the diatribe. Misconceptions and ill advice abound.

Lots of good info, thanks!

Of course after a death, if the POD was set up, they can get the funds by providing ID and a death certificate.

But the TOD/POD account has to be designated as such before the death.

That is the issue I am having where Banco tells me they don't offer it. They told me I have to set up as joint account and have my sister come in with ID etc. to be added. But they won't let me change my Ideal account to POD. They must not have understood what I wanted to do.

I don't believe there is any reason Banco can't offer a TOD/POD account. Bring in a death certificate and they should turn the funds over. I'd want to see a checking account application. Again, for obvious reasons, "joint" accounts can be devastating.

Lots of good info, thanks!

Of course after a death, if the POD was set up, they can get the funds by providing ID and a death certificate.

YUP.

But the TOD/POD account has to be designated as such before the death.

WELL, YUP.

That is the issue I am having where Banco tells me they don't offer it. They told me I have to set up as joint account and have my sister come in with ID etc. to be added. But they won't let me change my Ideal account to POD. They must not have understood what I wanted to do.

JOINT ACCOUNTS, AS I SAID, ARE A BAD IDEA. Most banks simply have a beneficiary designation form. I'll figure it out when I get back. However, a number of people maintain Stateside accounts and simply have an ATM card for use in the V.I. What about Merchants Bank? Years ago I got fed up with Scotia "service" at Havensight, right after Firstbank took over Chase, and immediately jumped.

I don't believe there is any reason Banco can't offer a TOD/POD account. Bring in a death certificate and they should turn the funds over. I'd want to see a checking account application. Again, for obvious reasons, "joint" accounts can be devastating.

You either need an attorney or a different bank, imo.

yep that's what it's looking like

You either need an attorney or a different bank, imo.

I did a quick search tor "bank pay on death form" and Bank of America came up with a link (a few others, too) but since Scotia is a partner bank with BofA they might be more familiar.

Old Aunt Gert passes away without a will, her estate gets divided and all of a sudden your estate has real estate in it as a tenant in common with other heirs. I have seen this "problem" compounded back to the early 1900's. Multiple individuals in family lines that never had a will amongst them. This is where the problem (and expense) of Partition rears its ugly head.

I bought a vacant lot a while back in the states that was in an estate for years, the previous deed was dated 1910. Needless to say the attorney had lots of fun with that one and all the heirs.

Nothing wrong with joint accounts for married folks.

Old Aunt Gert passes away without a will, her estate gets divided and all of a sudden your estate has real estate in it as a tenant in common with other heirs. I have seen this "problem" compounded back to the early 1900's. Multiple individuals in family lines that never had a will amongst them. This is where the problem (and expense) of Partition rears its ugly head.

I bought a vacant lot a while back in the states that was in an estate for years, the previous deed was dated 1910. Needless to say the attorney had lots of fun with that one and all the heirs.

Nothing wrong with joint accounts for married folks.

Not at all. It's when you start adding the kids, or others, jointly on your primary account that everything can go sideways. And the States is different than the V.I.'s antiquated Probate Code, which I believe is a 1950's version of the NY Probate Code. You CAN probate an Estate from 1910 in the Virgin Islands. You generally cannot probate an estate under the Uniform Code (adopted in many States, adopted for a minute in the Virgin Islands, then "un-adopted" by the Legislature for various reasons) more than 3 years after the death of the decedent.