Fact or Mis-Information?

12 sailors murdered on STT....uh???? Now this one I haven't heard about.

I stand corrected, shore leave was canceled for 14 MONTHS after three sailors were attacked, one died.

Linda M,

That's funny because I was just going to correct you. And that happened in 1993 which while not too long ago I would say that is more of a fluke than a norm. Also you can go on the VI police department website and view some of the typical statics (although they info isn't that recent, 2004)

But in the research I have done, the VI does have higher crime rates than other Caribbean islands, but it still isn't comparable to that of urban cities in the US or thru out the world for that matter.

Linda: I am only going to comment on the deal with travel nurses. Yes, I think they get treated badly. Mostly it is for a couple of reasons: they get paid more than staff and they are here short-term. The travelers get paid a higher salary along with money toward housing and transportation, staff has to get by on their salary alone. This makes for bad feelings with the staff nurses. Also, because travelers are staying only a short while, there is that island tendency to keep them at arm's length. I have also heard travel nurses talking loudly about drinking and partying, etc. Again, this doesn't go over too well with the majority of local employees. If you are a staff nurse, you may get the stand-offish treatment initially. Once you are seen as someone who cares and is staying for awhile, you will see a different picture.

I don't think what usually gets mentioned much is the testing that goes on when you first move here. I got it big time at work & it continued until I copped a bigger attitude than they had & they backed off & oddly, some became very close friends. The testing was sabotaging the work, giving me misinformation, getting loud & rude in my face (I was management). One day I'd had enough & blasted back. End of situation. Most of my friends told me they had the same thing happen.

Any frail flowers are going to have a time of it. It's rough down here.

I can't speak to STT but I'm almost 60 and have lived on STX for 3 1/2 years. Our experience has been mostly good, nothing like you have described. We work, me parttime and Ric full-time, we go to the grocery, the beach, parties. We don't spend much time in clubs or out late at night, but we never did.

We plan on staying here until some medical need - either ours or my Dad's - make relocation back to the states necessary. We have enough income to live comfortably and met our needs.

I would definintely NOT depend on anyone elses opinion. I would come and see for myself. Especially as a nurse, speak to people who work at the hospital, look at the situation and decide if it's for you.

I think our experience has been very close to Linda and Ric. We have not had horrible experiences with locals, we have received polite service at all of the stores we frequent, and we have may many great friends, both among locals and ex-pats. In fact, the only really *horrible* experience I have had on this island came from the ex-pat white landlord who thought Tabra and I were "sub-human animals" because we are a female couple and did everything from peeping in our windows, to mowing the lawn outside our bedroom at 5 AM to talking about us to all of the other tenants until we moved out. Soooo.... discrimination comes in many forms and can happen anywhere. I think, at least here on St. Croix, that if you are polite and friendly to people, that behavior comes back to you. Yes, we have met people who have been reserved with us when they first met us (not hostile, just reserved) However, as soon as they meet us a couple more times, they warm up and welcome us right in. I agree with Linda... you must form your own opinions, because everyone will have different experiences, depending on who they are, where they go, what kind of lifestyle they lead, etc, etc, etc.

I think Trade's post says it all most succintly I've been here just I think two years less than Trade (but we're still talking over two decades) and I was really fortunate that in no way was I subjected to the treatment that Trade experienced in the workplace. But I DID go through many similar incidents OUT of the workplace and they can be pretty hairy when you're a newbie, I'll admit.

Linda M, there are so many people who come and go here for many reasons. Likewise there are some travelling nurses who adapt very well and come back time and time again and there are others who vow never to come back again. Everybody's experience is different, everybody's perception is different but although Trade and I often disagree, the statement that, "Any frail flowers are going to have a time of it" is true.

That said, it sounds as though you have the right outlook and perspective to be just fine here so I would say just accept the fact that this one traveller didn't make it for whatever reason and use your own judgement.

It's come home to me even more recently about how crime stats can be very misleading. I have Dish satellite and because of some recent upheavals between the networks and satellite providers, my NBC feed comes out of both Atlanta and the West Coast as opposed to the previous NY feed. Pretty good actually as I can often catch some of my favourite NBC programs which are on too early for me to watch via Atlanta later on via the West Coast.

But honestly, the local news off the Atlanta feed might scare the bejasus out of someone thinking about moving to Atlanta with all the prime-time headlines of murders, kidnappings, mall shootings, etc. I've never been to Atlanta but do know people there and their perspective of life there is so at odds with what's aired.

Of course there is crime here and of course newbies have to learn to adapt but crime stats alone can be most misleading as can comments from those who have come, not conquered and gone. Cheers!

Linda:

My 2 cents.......

We own a condo at Point Pleasant on STT. During the last 3 years we've met several travelling nurses here. All seemed to be very happy with their job and environment. Last January we met one nurse who returned for a second tour on STT. She indicated that many (her words) nurses extend their stay for an additional 13 weeks.

As for crime......I wouldn't have purchased there if I thought it would endanger my family.....we've never had a problem. Actually, it's been a very good experience.

F.I.

Vay, you have to look at the numbers per 100,000 residents, if you want to make a true comparison. You can't go on just raw numbers.

You have got to understand that you are giving misinformation.

Promoguy,

Are you saying that lookign at it per 100,000 is misleading because its such a small island?

It is a fact that the VI have higher crime rates than many other Caribean islands, but theres crime rates are comparably low compared to most urban settings.

I agree that statistics are misleading and safety is subjective, but being that no two people on this forum have had the same experiences in life (VI or wherever they may have lived), stats are the one thing that is objective.

Lookign forward to your response...

Vay, please do be careful until you've been there and you realize a lot of crime, violent or otherwise, goes unreported. The numbers themselves are incredibly misleading.....we call the police onthe mainland and get assigned to a statistical database if a dog pees on a car tire. You will find that is NOT the case in the islands. And personally, I don't understand why on an island like St. Croix that would be considered (land-wise, anyway) a large township on the mainland, with roughly the same population, has the stats it does, until you start factoring in unemployment and a million other things.

It's a little disconcerting when you've "been there, done that" to have people tell you they understand island life from research. Angela just did a little post about finding out on her PMV what was real and what was research. No one has it out for you, but you gotta listen to the folks who are living or who have done the island thing in one form or fashion before you start quoting stats. As you know, stats can read both ways - because Little Rock, Arkansas, had 70+ murders last year, it was ranked fairly high in violent crime - but for the tourism department, there were 175,000 people that DIDN'T get murdered....you see what I mean?

IQ test for the day. If the entire USVI's have 25 murders a year, and Los Angeles has a 100, one might think that there is a greater chance of being murdered in Los Angeles. You would be wrong. But then again, it's a math problem.

Crime is bad here based on the relative small population, but what as always been worse to me is the lack of police enforcement and justice. My husband is a federal agent here and I hear about more then I want to know from him and his friends (which are mostly other agents). Are you coming to downtown Detroit? No, I'm not trying to make it sound as bad as that. If you've lived here a long time and you've never been robbed or mugged good for you. But its sorta like getting into a car accident stateside. Its just a matter of time. Rapes are either hushed up by places like local hotels and resorts or they are described in way to graphic of detail by the local paper. Everyone knows how to get a prostitute or drugs, but is that true as well as were you are coming from? If you are going to live here you have to be cautious at all times. You never keep money in your house, you don't tell people when you are going out of town (and get a house sitter), and get a couple of dogs or a couple of roommates. Not saying you have to live in fear, but you do have to realize you are completely responsible for your safety here. No nice policeman is going to come bail you out of trouble, or find the criminal, or get you any kind of justice. It is simply just too corrupt and understaffed.

Example, one of my husbands friend was at Bombay Club a couple of weeks ago. He's inside paying the tab and his girlfriend and sister step out the door ahead of him and his girlfriend is shoved to the ground so badly she was black and blue on one side and they take her purse. His sister runs in to get him and the robbers take off. When the dust settles a little and they try to get the police out they give them the run around about come down, he presses them and tells them who he is, the officer on duty finally admits he is the only police officer on duty for c'sted and can not leave the station. This is a very mild story, the problems are numerous with crime and justice here.

Its a different way of life and living here and you should know that and be prepared. Its like the old saying nothing is for free. Well paradise has a price as well.

Betty,

I totally understand where you are coming from. I don't claim to know everything and rather am just offering my opinion and the information I have. I have always found it hard to get a good temperature of how crime in STX is because everyone has different experiences.

Thanks for your response becasue I understand you probably posses way more information on this topic than I do. But most of all for treating other people with respect and not assuming others are below you.

Thanks again for the correcting me Betty

The USVI may appear to have higher crime rates than some other Caribean islands but one HUGE difference is the way in which crime reports are counted. In many cases the U.S. has much stricter guidelines about how to count crime reports.

Most of the vi islands are small and could not compare to large islands like puerto rico. The crime rate in the vi based on population is as high as many urban cities or higher.

This topic is the dead horse of this forum. We have beat to death. I no longer live in the Virgin Islands (STX) and one of the reasons we left was because we felt we could never really relax when out in the community. Even if we were enjoying the sun at Shoys Beach we found we were "challenged" by young locals. when we went to K mart we always had to be on our "best" behavior or we would get bad service. We had friends who came to work and were driven away (tested?) by fellow employees who resented them. We also had some wonderful experiences, that we will never be able to replace. I still come to this forum to give myself a taste of the good that was part of our lives on St Croix.

But lets face the truth. The government was corrupt and incompetent. The locals were defensive and undereducated. Crime was way to prevalent for such a small place.

Now I live in a small place in California where i feel safe most of the time and never have to prove myself to ignorant locals. Do I sound resentful? Well yes, I am resentful, because I was driven away from my paradise by ignorance and prejudice And no, I will not answer questions or get in a debate on this forum. Just my opinion.

I can't speak except about STT, but crime is hushed up WAY more on islands outside of the VI where tourist dollars are the main industry. More is coming out now about crime in other places due mainly to the internet making it a much smaller world than it used to be. I'm not saying there is no crime here but frankly, it's no worse than most other islands with a few exceptions like Anguilla, St. Barts & the BVI.

And I think that the BVI has been hushing up crime. There was a story of a tourist getting stabbed on JVD in the Daily News last week. Did you hear that anywhere else?

Thanks you all for your insights and offerings. I'll still be interviewing next month at both island hospitals but will be much more aware of what is going on on both STX and STT. My original intention was to sell and move, if things don't work out I can always return home and down size into something more appropriate. My family is behind me ( more or less ) "Mom's always been a bit different". Now I think I may just hold off on selling, probably rent my house here in LA short term and see what happens. I hope to accept a "permanent" full time position at one of the hospitals and try to find my "place" in your community. Believe it or not, moving from NYC to Thibodaux Louisiana was almost like coming to another country. Not being from here I really had to prove myself and slowly fit in. Not only was I not asmall town local but I was considered a "Yankee" and that's not a good thing! After 15 years it's all worked out well but I guess I'm still searching. The only thing that kind of concerns me is the fact that I'm female and coming by myself. From what I've read on this board I know that's not unique and has certainly been done before. I think the info I received earlier may have been unique to the person who told me, I have to believe that her situation is not the norm and your postings have pretty much stated that. I think this forum is invaluable and again, I thank you all for your time and effort.

Linda M.

Hi Linda
I no longer live on the island, but was there (STT) for a year. I left last June, but not because of crime or anything like that, I'm just a very transient person by nature. But I moved down by myself and shortly after arriving I found myself in the constant company of a 6'2" 225 pound fella. As good a deterrent to crime as a dog and may even pick up a tab now and then.
Actually, we did have something stolen from us and it's kind of a funny story. We were renting an apartment with a six month lease. We had been on a month to month basis when an opportunity to crew on a sailboat going down island came up and we gave the landlady plenty of notice that we would be leaving. She wished us well and told us we had been good tenants. When the day came to move she came down to look at our apartment and gave us our entire security deposit back. I was pleasantly surprised we got the whole sum back. The apartment had come furnished, but we had bought a new sofa to supplement the meager furnishings which were provided. We told the landlady we had sold the sofa to a friend and we were going to go pick him up when he got off of work so he could help move the sofa out of the apartment. The time came to pick up our friend and when we returned to the apartment the locks had been changed on our door. We went upstairs to her apartment and knocked. No answer. We tried her phone and got voicemail. About that time, a man who was a frequent visitor of our landlady stopped by. He had stopped by to feed her dog because she had left the island to go back to visit her family on St Kitts and she wasn't going to be back for a week. I stood there dumbfounded with the useless keys in my hand (her friend claims he had no keys for the apartment). So we had to give our friend his money back and all we could do was look in the window at our sofa knowing it wasn't going to leave that apartment.
Even though it was almost a year ago, I'm still a bit miffed about it. We plan on returning to the island someday and the first place I'm going (okay, maybe not the first or even the second) will be that apartment to see if our sofa is still there.

That's too funny, in a surreal kind of way, thanks for sharing!

Linda M, I don't read all threads here, but I imagine what I am about to say has been said. Regarding moving here on your own as a 50 year old female, go for it! We are not, I repeat not ,a third world country. I do get peeved with "attitudes", not always by locals. I actually hate it when white ex-pats tell you they don't have any problem with service, attitude, efficiency, friendliness. That is just pure BS! I equally hate when short-timers think they have experienced it all, and because some locals were rude to them, they go running home. Some locals will be rude to you. A lot of locals will be rude to you, at least your definition of rude. I believe it is not a race issue as much as an "opportunity" issue. Leonard Pitts, the columnist, wrote once that whites don't hate blacks because they are black, they hated them because they are poor. Works both ways. We, the Continentals, are seen to have so much more, and the US supplies so much to the VI, it fosters resentment. Only natural. Regarding crime, well yes, you could be in the wrong place at the wrong time, you could be singled out for some reason or maybe random violence. That kind of thing ever happen where you live now? I believe we have a serious crime issue here in the VI, and regarding your friend who had the incident in the grocery store, it was probably just as she told you, but there may be more to it? Just don't do dumb stuff. I go where I want, when I want, use common sense, and live just as I would Stateside.
Suggestion, read the local paper, The VI Daily News, online or the VI Source. Don't just read the crime headlines. Read the business section, the human interest stories, etc. You may find it compares to your current hometown.
Wish you all the best, J.