Estate Grove Place Subdivision

Who what?

The paperwork states: Estate Grove Place, Prince's Quarter, St. Croix. Does anyone know anything about this area?

I believe it is off Midland near the fire station...but I really know nothing about the area or neighborhood. I feel sure Alexandra does and will weigh in with her thoughts...I'll throw in my 2 cents - I wouldn't buy property here or anywhere else without a first hand look at it to check on availability of utilities, condition of the primary road and access roads, etc. You'd serve yourself well to make a trip here and get a personal look rather than rely on anyone else's judgment. Never heard of the corp at all, but it could just be a subsidiary for another company. I believe the realty company is in F'sted.

Hi, I appreciate your thoughts. However, I wouldn't care if it were a horrible little hovel, I want to live in ST. Croix. The only thing I am concerned with is, if I pay the down payment, is there really a lot and is the payment going to purchase that lot.
As I told the real estate agent: I would live in a tent if I had to.

Kathy, please understand I'm not trying to be a downer...but over the last few months we have met so many people who have come to this island on a dream without a CLUE as to what they were doing...some made it, some didn't.

Read the threads on buying real estate - you will need an attorney to close, so most likely he/she should have an idea and a legal description as to what it is you are purchasing and whether the land is free and clear, liens, etc....much as title companies do in the states.

Also, all land that is in the MLS can be purchased through any agent you choose on the island - it doesn't have to be the listing company. Find you an agent with a good reputation - and I'm not saying anything bad at all about that particular real estate company, as I have no knowledge of them. If you prefer to do business with a "known" name, there is Coldwell-Banker, ReMax, and some other stateside companies...and there are local companies that are simply wonderful...Calabash, Farchette & Handley and some others. They all know of great real estate lawyers that will help you along the way...once again, my caveat is "buyer beware" and "see it with your own eyes"...but that's my rule and not yours!

Kathy,

Listen to Becky R. We made the trip, did all of the transactions in person, hired a real estate attorney, and we still found ourselves dealing with scheister realtors, ineffective or just plain unethical inspectors, and shady sellers who deliberately did not disclose relevant info. It all worked out thanks to having a pit bull of a real estate attorney on our side and because we were here in person to flag things for the attorney to handle because we inpsected the property ourselves.

We love it here, and while I believe that overwheleming majority of the residents of this lovely island are good people, there are those few bad apples here -- just as there are everwhere -- who are just out to make a buck off of the naive, unsuspecting, or overly enthusiastic who "just want to live in St. Croix." (BTW, all of the bad guys in our scenario were caucasian continental transplants, not native Crucians. And some worked for a "known" name in real estate -- one of the national chains mentioned by Becky R.)

I also have to ask, have you ever lived here before -- and I mean lived in a manner in which you needed to pay bills, buy groceries, send and receive mail, and find a way to get around, not just spent time as a tourist? We say it over and over because it's true -- island life isn't for everyone. THings work differently, and move slowly. Just living through the renovation of an existing home sent me to edge of my patience -- I cannot imagine the nightmare of trying to build a home on property that may not have a road that leads to it, has no access to the power grid, could require tens of thousands of dollars to make it graded well enough to support a home, and such. These are determinations I wouldn't trust anyone to make for me -- EVER.

Rather than risk your hardearned money by buying property sight unseen, why not invest in a trip to StX so you can decide for yourself what neighborhoods are right for you, and if the piece of paradise that you're considering is appropriate for your needs, comfort level and budget? It would seem you have everything to gain by taking it a little more slowly and everything to lose by rushing into a purchase of land upon which you've never set foot.

--HC

Okay, I know what you all are saying. I understand. I need to let you know a little about where I live now. The road to the property which my husband and I purchased here, in Alabama, was not paved to begin with. I live in a "Po-dunk" town, if you have a clue what that means. We just moved out of a 1800 sq ft home into a 290 sq ft cabin to save the money to purchase property in St. Croix. I know slow life style, I know dirt roads, I know roughing it. We are small town country folk. I do not want anyone to take this like I'm fussing, cause I'm not. I'm enjoying myself here.
Oh, I know hard work too!
However, I suppose I will take your advice and fly over to check things out. I appreciate all of your comments. Does anyone know of an apartment which I can rent and a small dog is allowed?
Once again, thank you all.
I'd still like to hear from Alexandra.

Good deal, Kathy C!

It sounds like you have the kind of spirit and outlook that will make your transition to island life easier.

I know Po-dunk town life personally, and I'm now two years into experiencing the unique lifestyle that comes with living on STX. Although they have some similarities, the two experiences are mostly very different. For example, living in the USVI isn't just complicated by limited choices of vendors, etc. In your current situation, if the heavy equipment you needed wasn't available in your town, you could get in brought in from a neighboring town or city within a few days, tops. On an island, it could take you weeks -- and cost thousands more dollars -- to have it shipped here from the mainland or Puerto Rico. When you built your cabin, it's likely that you used wood or bricks -- here you will need to use concrete or cinder blocks, which are sometimes out of stock. We had to wait up to two weeks at times while more cinder blocks were produced. And the difference in paying to have electrical lines and plumbing run through wood frame structures and cinder block/cement structures is substantial.

Like I said, I think you'll do well whatever path you take simply because you have a terrific attitude and are willing to work and make sacrifices for living your dreams. All we're trying to let you know is that you'll do even better if you make a pre-move visit to get a first-hand experience with the land, the people, and the prices.

Let us know when you plan to be here so we can see about planning a get together in which you can meet your future neighbors, okay?

Best wishes...

--HC

Why would you want to live in Grove Place? Move to the rain forest. It's prettier, safer, and cheaper.

Would you please explain that comment? thank you

Kathy, please contact me privately at ssrr@runbox.com - I know some people who know some people who may have a place short-term for you if you know when you will be planning to come and for how long. Relatively inexpensive, at least not hotel prices, and close to where you are looking at property.

Boy, I take a day off to enjoy the parade and come back to find I'm missing a plea for help! Sorry about that... but the parade was too fun to miss. 🙂

Grove Place is inland a little west of center of the island. It's immediately north of the best grocery store on St. Croix (Plaza West). That's the good part...

It's a fairly depressed area economically with quite a few "project housing" developments and some run-down neighborhoods. There are a few nicer properties mixed in, as nothing can ever be totally generalized. Something to keep in mind when you are selecting a house or lot or condo to purchase is the re-sale potential. How hard or easy will it be to sell the property in the future if you find you want to or need to? How much is the area appreciating in value relative to other neighborhoods?

There are many different neighborhoods on the island and many pieces of land for sale, some at extremely attractive prices. I can't say what the right lot or neighborhood for you might be... What is your comfort zone? Some new arrivals are happy to dive right into living in very "local" neighborhoods and others are not. Some might be someday and others will never be comfortable living in certain neighborhoods.

I drive through the Grove Place area regularly. Personally it's not an area I would select to live on St. Croix, as there are so many other options that I find attractive to me.

Investing in real estate on St. Croix can be a very sound move to make. It can pay you extra dividends to do your homework and select your property with great care. There are areas I can comfortably recommend to people who wish to buy sight unseen. These would be areas where there is no doubt that the property could easily be re-sold at a profit if the buyer ultimately decided it wasn't a neighborhood where they wished to live personally. Other neighborhoods I'd hesitate to recommend to someone if they hadn't seen them in person as the re-sale is tougher and they might be "stuck" with a property they were unhappy with.

Price alone should not be the determining factor. You also should consider Value. You can look at 3 different pieces of land at the same price and they could cost vastly different amounts to develop if one is steep and one is flat and one is waterfront in need of a seawall. One might be more likely to appreciate than the others due to its location. One might be in an up-scale neighborhood and one might be next door to a housing project, etc.

Most photos you see of land on the island will be pretty. The tropics are a pretty place. Driving or walking around an area you might choose to live will give you more of a feel for whether it is a place you will be happy or not. Did you see photos of the neighborhood you are considering? Or only a few photos of the land for sale itself?

Kathy,

Where in ALabama are you from? My husband and I are from Gulf Shores. We are currently living at Guantanamo Bay Naval Base working. Our sons still are in Alabama. We already have reservations for our trip this week to St. Thomas and St. Croix. Like everyone says, make a pre trip before you actually buy. My husband has been there and loves it, but I haven't and that is why we are going this week, to make sure I will like it as well. He also may have a job on St. Thomas, but we prefer St. Croix. That is another thing you will have to consider is what you will do for a living once you get there. Let me know if you want me to see anything for you.
Sharon

oops, I don't know what just happened but as I was typing it disappeared.
anyway....
Alexander, it is Plot No. 123-F of Estate Grove Place, Prince's Quarter, St. Croix, US Virgin Islands, consisting of .2717 US ac. mor or less, as shown on Dwg. No. 2664, dated April 3, 1969.

This, as I said is owner financed with 10% down. Closing would not occur until the lot is paid for. Did I also say it is flat?
Do you know of anything like that in a better area?
We're not filthy rich. We are very simple and we do not require much. I found this lot good because we wouldn't have the extra expense of a cistern.

Thank you

Hi Sharon, we are from the small town of Branchville. It's between Birmingham and Talladega (almost exactly center). We took a cruise in 2003 for our 25th anniversary. My husband was in the Army and went to Grenada during the operation "Urgent Fury" in 1983 I think that's when it was. He wanted me to see the islands and when I did I fell in love, obsessed even.
I am in college right now in office administration and am hoping to snag a job in an attorney's office. If not, I have plenty of experience as a waitress. Also food service management. My husband is a truck driver. Propane, Gasoline, Diesel etc. I'm hoping he can get a job at either a fuel delivery company or at Hovensa. Again, he is flexible with carpentry experience etc.
I'm giving it to God and am sure we will get decent jobs.
I'm not sure of the exact address of this piece of property I want but it is in Estate Grove Place Residential Subdivision. It has a fence around it but the front gate is messed up. It is flat with one large tree in the back of the lot. There are some relatively dilapidated small buildings behind the lot. So, if you get to see it, just drop me a line and let me know. I would be extremely grateful.

I am born and raised on St. Croix and I'll be honest and tell you that Grove is known as one of the worst, if not the worst neighborhood on St. Croix, although some VERY nice houses and nice areas can be found within the area. I used to live there when I was small. It does have a bad reputation, and I wouldn't be surprised if people on the island would be shocked to hear of someone from the states residing in Grove Place. Honestly, I've never heard of one person from the states who lived there, but if that's all you can afford, go for it, it'll be worth it in the end. However, this all does depend on the individual property, because like I said, there are some very nice houses in the area, although there are a lot of bad areas. I am very apprehensive about recommending that area to you.

What makes it the worst neighborhood? Most people say it's not a good area, they wouldn't recommend it to anyone. Why? Are there gangs there? Are there poor people there? What is it?
Someone spell it out ABCs for me, please.
I thank you for your input but I really want to know why it's so bad.

There are a lot of poor people there, and it's one of the first places I think of when I think of poor people on STX, but really, it's a big mix when it comes to economic background. The neighborhood has a big reputation for crime, but then again, Grove covers a very large area and not everywhere is full of crime, mostly in the projects in Grove (Mutual Homes, Lorraine Village come to mind). What I mean by crime is murders, drug dealing, things like that. I just think there are better places to live on the island, especially if you're a newcomer.

I was talking to a friend on AOL Instant Messenger about this and she said this:

"It isn't so much that there are gangsters but it is not an area for someone that is NEW to the island. If you are not new then you would already know that the area has a lot of conflict within itself. The area is reasonable and in some ways has many traditional roots of the island but it is not a place that someone that is unknowing of culture, people, or many other things that would cause more conflict between you, the newbie, and the current residents who already think that they have some claim "right" to that area"

Might I suggest that you get a subscription to the Avis and watch it closely? You will find owner-financed properties from time to time, but the fact that you won't close until it is paid for sends up red flags in my head (although maybe it's done that way)...but if you had a bank land mortgage behind you, it seems there would be a little more security, as they would want to KNOW what they are holding title to - they would pay the asking price for any property and you could take out a "real" note. Remember that with owner-financed properties, many times there is an extra cushion built into the price for extending that service. Maybe your finances preclude a land mortgage...if so, you are just better waiting it out until your finances are more stable...or until you can get here to live. Networking is a huge source of information, and once again, you may meet someone who has a piece of property up for sale that is more desirable to you....and more reasonable. You still have to do the research, though....remember that this is a whole new ballgame down here and things don't work like you think they do. Don't bring a stateside mentality into this or you will lose your butt.

My advice would be patience. That is actually just a little over a quarter acre, and you may find something the same size for the same price in a location where you would feel more comfortable. May be through an agent, may be through an individual.

TH knows the lay of the land, so to speak - listen carefully. Although you have the desire, there are socioeconomic and culture factors outside your realm of control.

I'm going to state my position and hold on for the upcoming storm...move here, rent, find the area where YOU fit, and then take your dive. Don't let your dream make you blind.

Incidentally, with even a very short amount of time here under my belt, I think the Crucians are on to something - building a little at a time, as finances allow. You don't HAVE to do it that way, but if you can pay as you go a little at a time, it certainly elminates a huge mortgage at the end of the road. Save your money, buy your land. Save your money, put in cistern and septic. Save your money, pour your slab. Save your money, get it in the dry. It CAN be done, people with less than substantial means do it all the time....but the key word is patience and the follow-up to that is knowledge and research. And DON'T buy what you've never laid eyes on...Alexandra is absolutely correct. What you see in a picture or multiple pictures just won't give you the feel for where you belong, and those pictures most likely are from the most flattering angle. Descriptions can be misleading as well - "gently sloped" can translate into "cliffside" when you see it in person.

I'm sorry if I sound like I'm trying to discourage you, but I guess I am. If you have unlimited assets and income and can take that gamble, go nuts....if you are looking for your place in the sun to LIVE, invest part of your money in finding the place that will suit you best. It's money well spent. Renting is not necessarily throwing money down a rat hole - it's part of the education process as to the nuances of St. Croix. Be wise.

what is the Avis and how do I get a subscription?
thank you

This is from a post from last June, I assume the basic info is still correct. You might want to give them a call at the phone # below.
---------------

I called (340-773-2300) the Avis and they said you could get a "subscription" sent to you for $57.

Send a check to :

St Croix Avis
PO BOX 750
Christiansted, USVI 00820

Sorry, Kathy -

The Avis is the local STX paper. Daily News is primarily St. Thomas. And the online paper is different than the paper copy...can't explain that one, but that's the way it is!

I grew up in Grove Place...I used to live in Mutual Homes housing development and a lot of my friends lived in Lorraine Village. Isaac Hayes was one of the people who developed Lorraine Village, and he even came to the development for the grand opening. Some of us had him autograph our arms, hands, etc. and swore we'd never wash it off LOL !!

That being said, I now live on the Carambola Golf Course which is bordered by Grove Place...of course we have Lawaetz's cow pastures and rolling hills between us. So you have what is one of the prettiest neighborhoods on the island bordered by what has become one of the most notorious.

When I lived in Grove Place, Mutual Homes was populated by hard-working people who came here from St. Lucia, Dominica, Trinidad, and other Caribbean islands. They worked at the oil refinery and at the alumina plant for up to sixteen hours per day. There was a sense of neighborhood, and there was no crime to speak of. We used to walk the quarter-mile out to the highway to catch the schoolbus, and there was no Plaza Extra, Seventh Day Adventist church, multiple gas stations, etc. There were no homes along the road leading to the highway, and people would stop and give you a ride without fear...the good old days on St. Croix.

I would not live in Grove Place now, nor would I recommend anyone to buy land there. There is a four-bedroom house for sale there that seems to be very nice and large, but it has been sitting on the market for a while and probably will continue to. The hard-working people who lived in Mutual Homes and Lorraine Village built their own homes elsewhere and moved out of government housing. Those homes are now occupied by an undesirable element, the kind of people who would run down and kill a young boy on his bicycle all the way up in Union-Mount Washington on the east side of the island and then drive home to Grove Place without stopping. I'm not saying that all resident of Grove Place are criminals, but there is enough of an element there to make me happy that my house in my gated neighborhood nearby is patrolled by security and my very unfriendly German Shepherd and Weimaraner.

Some of us "old-timers" bemoan the loss of an even friendlier, safe St. Croix. There was a time when the restless young men would leave the island because there was "nothing here for them to do" and go commit their crimes in places where they would be caught and locked away. Nowadays St. Croix has become so convenient the restless young men no longer feel a need to leave...after all, we have shopping, cable TV, night clubs, and we no longer roll up the sidewalks at 5:00 p.m. Grove Place has more than its share of these "restless young men", and you, as a newcomer, should avoid it.

Native Son, are you a published writer? If not, you should be. The end of your post left me looking for more to read. That was amazing. Oh, and by the way, thank you for your input. I have decided that since I can't afford to come over there right now, I'll wait about purchasing a piece of property. I'm very saddened by the whole thing though.
Thank you for posting.