crime in usvi

You say: What can I do against the police force?
'
What about the Attorney General's office? Maybe the FBI. Surely they will be interested in taking out those who have commited crimes. Once again I see you are part of the problem as well.

RL

Well, seeing how cheap life is to the police officers of the U.S. Virgin Islands, I once again state, I could get SHOT! Watching out for my own life doesn't make me "part of the problem"

Besides, this happened when I was a teenager in the late 1980s. I don't know the names of the 6+ officers involved, except for the first name of one, who I heard committed suicide - interestingly enough he was one of two of the officers present that had a problem with covering it up. Also it was obvious that one of the officers was high ranking, judging by the decorations he had, so it is not like I could go to someone "higher up"

"What about the Attorney General's office?"

This is what happens to someone (a police officer in this case, no less) reports something to the Attorney General's office:

http://www.pulitzer.org/year/1995/public-service/works/15assassinated.html

FBI doesn't give a damn about what happens in the Virgin Islands (I believe primarily because no one else gives a damn either, including what seems to be most of the people on this board) and if you don't believe me, read some of what is here:

http://www.pulitzer.org/year/1995/public-service/works/

Or here:

http://www.virginislandsdailynews.com/index.pl/dforce

Anyone remember a man named Ali Paul (sp?) the U.S. Senate representative for the USVI in the late 1980s? Little reminder: he got caught with Washington D.C. Mayor Marion Barry doing crack. I remember a short blurb about him in the Daily News, a particular edition that my brother happened to be on the front page of for a scholastic achievement. Second page it talked about how Ali was arrested for breaking into an elementary school. It also had a blurb about how his wife was arrested for burning their eight day old son in a crack induced fire. And oh yeah, at the time St. Croix Police Chief Adelbert Bryan was acquitted for looting a large amount of lumber after Hurricane Hugo, of which he was caught with at his home, by the FBI.

Speaking of Mr. Bryan, does anyone remember how he shot his son to death, in cold blood? And as a reward, you guys elected him to the Virgin Islands legislature! Or would that be a punishment?

Here is an interesting article on what can be done to change the way things are in the USVI:

http://www.virginislandsdailynews.com/index.pl/article_dforce?id=512075

I do believe I have a vested interest in the USVI, seeing as how I grew up there, have many friends on island, including some I consider to be best friends, and my father died on St. Thomas and had his ashes scattered at Morningstar. Even so, anyone who even spends a day there has an interest in how bad crime is and how it is taken care of. I hate to see the Islands in this condition, and it only looks like it is going to at least stay the same if not get worse.

I think it's unfortunate, noone, when you lump together everyone as in, "seeing how cheap life is to the police officers of the U.S. Virgin Islands" and, "as a reward, you guys elected him to the Virgin Islands legislature!" There is good and bad in every community and there are numerous people here who by their actions defy your generalizations.

The media, of course, feeds on drama and then island gossip takes over and magnifies everything to such a degree that the real story is often completely tortured beyond recognition.

I've been here since the early 80s and have had plenty of first-hand experience with both crime in general and with rogue police officers but I've never sat back and hid my head in the sand in fear of retribution and know many people here of the same ilk. But you won't read about us!

Human frailty is everywhere. I imagine that this murder that you say you saw committed in the 80s was devastating but you were very young then and maybe you could come forward now that you are older and wiser and cast a new light on what is probably a cold case, who knows but with success? Just a thought, and since you no longer live here but visit only, "once in a while," I doubt you need fear retribution.

"The media, of course, feeds on drama..."

Sorry, I don't think the Pulitzer Board feeds on drama, as they do have pretty rigorous rules for awarding the Pulitzer Prize.

"I think it's unfortunate, noone, when you lump together everyone as in..."

Your right, not all of the cops (and government officials) are bad down there. Just most of them. I will say that I can think of three police officers that were (perhaps still are?) decent people.

Should I bring up things like the across-the-board removal of accreditation for the public schools there? Or how about the regular misuse and/or stealing of funds, like the Carnival Committee not wanting to open its books - gee, I wonder why? Or how about things like the DMV selling licences, registrations, and inspection stickers? I probably shouldn't say anything about that since I never did go to the DMV to register or inspect my car... Or how about Governor Farrelly pardoning a bunch of criminals, like the convicted life-sentenced murderer (I can't remember his name) who was involved in the Fountain Valley Massacre?

How about this quote, from:

http://www.popcenter.org/Problems/Supplemental_Material/crimesagainsttourists/deAlbuquerque_McElroy_1999.pdf

"In 1992, the United States Virgin Islands had the dubious distinction of having higher violent crime rates (2,776 reported violent crimes per 100,000 population) than New York City (2,162) (Flanagan and Gutner 1994). Following 12 violent attacks (robberies, assaults, one murder) against US Navy sailors in 1993, the Atlantic Fleet canceled all shore leave on St Thomas (Rohter 1994). There was also a series of highly publicized rapes and murders of tourists, including the slaying of an internationally prominent California swimming coach, Murray Callan (Rohter 1994). The crime spree against tourists peaked in 1996 with the shooting of three tourists in St Thomas in January (The New York Times 1996a), followed by the execution style slaying of two visitors from South Carolina in March (The New York Times 1996b).

Governor Roy Schneider was finally driven to act. He ordered roadblocks and imposed a nighttime curfew on youths. However, much of the local reaction to escalating tourist victimization was defensive: victim blaming (erroneously blaming swimming coach Callan for walking through a housing project and refusing to give up his wallet), secretive (refusing to release crime figures) and protectionist of the tourism industry with the Police Chief stating emphatically to Forbes magazine that "crime is not a major problem on our island" (Flanagan and Gutner 1994)."

This is an ongoing problem that has been happening for many years now, and most people in the USVI seem to be in denial about it.

I had a friend on St. Thomas who was born and raised in Mexico City, Mexico, and she told me that the USVI is more corrupt than Mexico City. Personally, I think the change from kind locals to (some) murderers, etc. comes from a combination of drugs and the youth seeing the "rich" tourists that are there to spend an inordinate amount of money, and being jealous, or covetous, of the money. To be truthful, I do not blame them.

"I imagine that this murder that you say you saw committed in the 80s was devastating but you were very young then and maybe you could come forward now that you are older and wiser and cast a new light on what is probably a cold case, who knows but with success? Just a thought, and since you no longer live here but visit only, "once in a while," I doubt you need fear retribution."

It is not a "cold case" because it never became a case. I do fear retribution. I won't have anything to do with it, as I feel that I have already overextended myself by saying it somewhat anonymously here, even without detailing it - and yes, I can name the time, day, month, year, and exact location of the crime. I will NEVER forget it.

You are not anonymous. You should know you can be traced through your ISP and maybe the same people you fear retribution from can find you.

Secondly, what have you done? Did you do anything positive to help these things stop or is this your way of helping, doing this sort of diatribe?

I still feel you are part of the problem. Maybe where you are now safely living, you can petition the Congress or your State to see what they can do to help us out down here. The amount of time you are taking reseaching and find these stats can be better served by doing something constructive. There are loads of articles that cen be found regarding the positve images that the youth today need, rather than finding articles that are written to discredit these islands. Pulitzer prizes aren't won by mundane articles. They have to be controversial and are sometimes erroneous. Remember the award winning journalist from the NY Times, I believe, that made up his stories?

I know I do my share. I have in the past and will continue to report any crime I have seen commited. I have sat on the witness stand and helped convict a young man that had a concealed weapon that I saw on j'ouvert morning. I have been to the police station to ID a another possible shooter.
I am currently the VP of the Council on Alcholism and Drug Dependence to try and help the best I can. Again I ask, what have you done except to keep writing about our denial?

RL

"You are not anonymous. You should know you can be traced through your ISP and maybe the same people you fear retribution from can find you."

I said, "somewhat anonymously" - I could be using www.anonymizer.com - at any rate, getting my IP would only tell you what city I live in, and it would require a subpoena to my ISP to get my user identification. Besides, I haven't named any facts about the crime, so who knows what and would even be interested?

"Did you do anything positive to help these things stop or is this your way of helping, doing this sort of diatribe?"

This "diatribe" comes from statements on this board, like these:

"This topic has been discussed many times on this forum. Yes there is crime on St Thomas, St John and St Croix. It is no more and possible less than similar sized places in the states."

"First of all, I resent the statement about "all the homicides in the VI", and I'm rather tired of hearing and reading such statements from people who do not live here and have no clue."

"Lived here for 18 years never been robbed, mugged, or murdered 😉 So lets stop this thread. Its been overkilled many many many many many many many many times."

"I always ask where they might have heard such nonsense about some high level of crime, and it is always not from a source that has ever really spent any time here."

I made this simple statement, a statement of fact, and it was disputed: "12 so far this year, at this rate there will be 48 before the year is out. 110,000 people makes these islands worse, murder wise, than anywhere else in America."

"Pulitzer prizes aren't won by mundane articles. They have to be controversial and are sometimes erroneous. Remember the award winning journalist from the NY Times, I believe, that made up his stories?"

Seeing as how the Pulitzer Prize is the literary award in the World, and how these articles were published over ten years ago, I do not see how they could be erroneous - the Pulitzer Board would have revoked the award, and anyone named in the articles would have disputed the facts.

"Again I ask, what have you done except to keep writing about our denial?"

This started as dispute over facts, so I provided more. What have I written, besides the conjecture of my Mexican friend and the murder I witnessed, that is not verifiable fact? Oh, and I will add that the shooting I saw at Magens was on May 8th, 2005, close to the bathrooms. As that was Mothers Day, I am sure you can find a local that was there, who can verify it.

"I still feel you are part of the problem"

I stated what I believe to be a solution to the problems in the USVI:

"Your power is in your vote. Change here happens at the top."

I had a friend on St. Thomas who was born and raised in Mexico City, Mexico, and she told me that the USVI is more corrupt than Mexico City

LOL !!

noone, you have a very dark view of the Virgin Islands and our existence here...

I guess we should all just pack our bags and move to some peaceful, crime-free utopia like Boston, Chicago, Atlanta, Detroit, or Los Angeles, where there are no corrupt officials and the criminals all get caught. Better yet, maybe we should move to Mexico City, and join the hordes crossing the border to escape their Mexican Paradise.

I grew up on St. Croix, I live here, and I try to make a contribution to this society by being a mentor and a role model to young men that I come in contact with. Hopefully, I can make a difference.

noone said ""Your power is in your vote. Change here happens at the top."

Where is "here", and are you saying that wherever "here" is, the voters are smarter than the voters in the VI, and therefore elect corruption-free officials who look out for the public good?

Americans voted George Bush into office twice, after he lied to the entire universe about WMD's in Iraq and got the country emroiled in a disastrous military adventure in the Middle East.

DC voters kept putting crack-head Marion Barry back into office.

The list is endless.

You can whine all you want about how horrible life is here in the VI. It is the same everywhere, and just because there is sunshine and beaches here doesn't make it "paradise"....there will be crime, corruption, murders, rapes, burglaries, etc. You can consider yourself "safe" in whatever gated enclave in the States you sequester yourself in, until someone gets in and takes your daughter, son, wife, etc and the body is found days later...happens all the time, we watch the news too.

You make some good points, and you state facts. However, we do not live in fear for our lives here. We go about our business, and on a daily basis we are not affected by crime. There is the occasional murder, robbery, like everywhere else. You can spout per capita figures all you want, I personally feel a lot safer in the Virgin Islands than anywhere I've lived in the States, and I've lived in quite a few places there.

Using your logic, no Black people should live in texas because they dragged a Black man to death behind a pickup some years ago there. We should stay away from Florida because they burned a Black man to death there some years ago...etc etc etc.

We live here, we know there are criminals and corrupt officials. WE don't vote for the corrupt ones, we protect ourselves and our families at all times, we avoid areas where the criminals hang out, we keep aware at all times. Not paranoid, just aware. WE secure our homes. Take proper caution, like anywhere else. It is NOT paradise, but it is certainly not Mexico City.

BTW. The first article you refered to the shooting of Stephen Hodge. I don't see any link to where his 4 killers were apprehended and tried and convicted of his murder. Yes. It happened.
Yes, and Ali Paul was a one term senator in the local legislature. Don't know where and how you connected him with Marion Barry. Marion Barry was caught with Charles Lewis of our Washington Delegate's office. Ali did fall into a drugged world but has since recovered and holds a great job with the Department of Licensing on St Croix.

RL

PS Was that May 8th 1984 or 2005?

noone,

Like Ronnie, I believe that there are far more constructive things someone can do to combat crime in the VI than provide links to newspaper stories and recount experiences from the 1980s. Perhaps your fear of coming forward after witnessing a crime while visiting STT in May of 2005 is what has prevented you from contacting the authorities and providing them with your eyewitness testimony but if you are truly concerned about your saftety you should know that the Daily News archives their issues and if someone is interested in tracking you down I believe you have provided enough information for them to find you -- through your brother.

"Anyone remember a man named Ali Paul (sp?) the U.S. Senate representative for the USVI in the late 1980s? Little reminder: he got caught with Washington D.C. Mayor Marion Barry doing crack. I remember a short blurb about him in the Daily News, a particular edition that my brother happened to be on the front page of for a scholastic achievement. Second page it talked about how Ali was arrested for breaking into an elementary school. It also had a blurb about how his wife was arrested for burning their eight day old son in a crack induced fire."

"I guess we should all just pack our bags and move to some peaceful, crime-free utopia like..."

I am not saying that you should move. I am saying that there is a serious problem, and it starts with the government officials there.

"...a role model to young men that I come in contact with. Hopefully, I can make a difference."

Excellent. You do sound like one of the good people to me.

"Where is "here", and are you saying that wherever "here" is, the voters are smarter than the voters in the VI, and therefore elect corruption-free officials who look out for the public good?"

I should have been more clear, and said, "Change there..."

The city I was born in was recently rated as the 18th worst in America, so I know corruption is rampant everywhere. My point is, do not downplay what is the truth about the USVI.

"(Bush) got the country emroiled in a disastrous military adventure in the Middle East."

I agree, we should not be there. I have a particular problem with Bush indiscriminately and illegally wiretapping all overseas communications, due to this "war on terrorism"

"Yes, and Ali Paul was a one term senator in the local legislature. Don't know where and how you connected him with Marion Barry."

I am probably wrong about the connection to Barry. I will say that I have met Ali Paul, when he visited a person who was renting my father's guest house at the time. He is a piece of garbage, to put it politely.

"your fear of coming forward after witnessing a crime while visiting STT in May of 2005"

You confused what I have written - the murder I witnessed in the late 1980s is what I fear coming forward about. The shooting at Magens on May 8th, 2005, did not result in anyone being hit, I was merely illustrating what I have personally witnessed, in regards to how disinterested the government there is in solving crimes.

I have been following this thread for a while now. This is a "popular" topic here, and has been discussed many times before. Frequently people here will tell he oher posters that crime in the VI isn't any worse than other places, it all takes place within certain community groups, avoid thjose groups and you won't be affected, etc, etc. Violent crime against people and property is higher here per capita than just about any other locale in the US. Violent crime has an effect on all of us, whether we avoid those groups, or not. I know our police commissioner wants the public to step up to the plate and help out, but for whatever reason, the public doesn't. It is a problem and pretending that there is no crime problem, or downplaying the one that exists is no better than making abbig deal of the problem.

bnk1227 says:

"Violent crime against people and property is higher here per capita than just about any other locale in the US."

The only way you will stop violent crime is to target the group most likely to commit such crimes.

One way would involve removing all young males from their families at an early age, say 8, and sequestering them in isolated camps out in the bush where they can be taught how to be civilized...obviously their families aren't doing it, given that many of their "parents" are psycopathic also. They would be allowed to join society when they have been proven to be ready. They would not be allowed the status of "man" unless they could prove "manhood." They would be taught the elements of manhood by their elders, such elements as discipline, honesty, work ethic, respect for elders, etc. They would be taught that you need to work for what you want, not simply put a gun to someone's head and take it. They would be taught that lawbreakers will be caught and ruthlessly dealt with, to include death.

You could segregate males and females in separate schools, and thus put an end to the testosterone-driven posturing that is at the root of much of the violence and failure to learn in high school.

You could teach the young women, who have unbelievable power, that they can use that power to create a new class of respectable young men...by only dating or recognizing young men who are polite and law-abiding, as opposed to being thugs.

Sounds draconian, right? The reality is, you'll never reduce or eliminate the crime rate unless there is very heavy interventionn and such intervention would be looked upon as violation of rights, etc.

So we continue to enjoy the fruits of the seeds we have planted. Freedom will be the death of us.

"Frequently people here will tell he oher posters that crime in the VI isn't any worse than other places, it all takes place within certain community groups, avoid thjose groups and you won't be affected, etc, etc. Violent crime against people and property is higher here per capita than just about any other locale in the US. Violent crime has an effect on all of us, whether we avoid those groups, or not."

BINGO!! bnk1227 is correct. Here are some real facts for potential movers to consider:

The US Virgin Islands is predominantly occupied by Blacks. Areas predominantly occupied by Blacks have high crime rates.

Poverty does not cause crime. The average Virgin Islander is much better off than the average person in, say, Appalachia, and the crime rate in Appalachia is negligible.

There is a large White population in the VI that makes hardly a dent in the crime rate. You very, very rarely see a White person getting arrested, much less for murder or robbery.

Wow, sorry Tourist, but that sounds blatantly racial.

Noone, if you're not here anymore, your obsession with this topic slips my grasp...but whether you acknowledge it or not, you ARE a part of the problem if you have information that could put away a person or people responsible for a violent crime. Pass it on to the FBI if you're afraid of the police here, but for God's sake do something. I don't think anyone is denying it happens, but if no one steps up to the plate boldly to tell the truth, then they are an accessory. Remember, a lie of omission is still a lie...and if you have the solution to a violent crime in your head and you refuse to share it, YOU should carry the burden for the next person that is accosted by the criminal you saw.

I've been the victim of violent crime in the USVI - big freakin' deal...that makes me one of many. It could have been a lot more violent than it was - the truly violent stuff seems to be more on a personal level, and I'm sorry - that just jumps over every racial or socioeconomic boundary you could set.

Poverty DOES cause crime. It causes one to look for less than honorable means to support themselves. You have all day and no job to go to and no money to do anything? Geez, it doesn't take a brain surgeon to connect the dots on this one. And I'm sorry, but I would guess the two guys in front of Kmart every night offering up crack and weed may be living better than I am, but I'd also betcha they didn't come from families with money just dripping off of them. Maybe they did, though. Who knows? If you listen to the older islanders talk, it wasn't this way twenty years ago...but guess what? It wasn't that way in Little Rock, Arkansas, twenty years ago either.

danieljude is right - live safely. Keep your head up and watch what is going on and don't be wandering around with your head up your a$$ when only those with less than honorable attentions are out and about. It's just common sense. Should it have to be that way? No...but that's life in the 21st century, whether in the VI or in Kansas City. Times change, that's just the cold truth.

Hmmmm looks like we have a white supremacist lurking on our boards...

"Noone, if you're not here anymore, your obsession with this topic slips my grasp..."

I guess I will have to once again repeat what I wrote:

"I do believe I have a vested interest in the USVI, seeing as how I grew up there, have many friends on island, including some I consider to be best friends, and my father died on St. Thomas and had his ashes scattered at Morningstar. Even so, anyone who even spends a day there has an interest in how bad crime is and how it is taken care of."

See the part about "...anyone who even spends a day there..."? Where do you come off not wanting to warn people of possible danger?

"(2,776 reported violent crimes per 100,000 population) than New York City (2,162)"

This was a 32% greater chance of having a violent crime happen to you in the USVI, than New York City in 1992. I doubt this has changed much. This is not a 1% or 2% greater chance, it is a significantly higher rate than one of the worst places in the U.S. Last time I was there I witnessed another shooting, in a highly public place during a national holiday, no less - of which nothing was done about, not even reported by the officer involved. So yes, when I visit friends of a place I grew up at, and this happens, it is a legitimate concern of mine.

"If you listen to the older islanders talk, it wasn't this way twenty years ago..."

The above cited statistic is from 14 years ago, so the above statement is simply not true.

"...part of the problem if you have information that could put away a person or people responsible for a violent crime."

I already stated why I won't. Go back and read all of the messages in this thread.

noone: Um, have you ever considered what you did as a crime??

"Or how about things like the DMV selling licences, registrations, and inspection stickers? I probably shouldn't say anything about that since I never did go to the DMV to register or inspect my car... "

Oh, I forgot to catch this:

"I've been the victim of violent crime in the USVI - big freakin' deal...that makes me one of many. It could have been a lot more violent than it was"

So violent crimes happening to many makes it OK then, eh? Next time mabey someone will take your life, or someone's life that is close to you. Will it still be OK with you then?

"Um, have you ever considered what you did as a crime??"

Sure, like you have never done anything wrong in your life. Can you really tell me that if you were offered a registration and inspection sticker for the standard price, you would go wait in line for four hours at the horribly (and yes I know it is like this anywhere) run DMV?

noone,

You ask, "Can you really tell me that if you were offered a registration and inspection sticker for the standard price, you would go wait in line for four hours at the horribly (and yes I know it is like this anywhere) run DMV?"

Yes. Unlike you, most people put up with the hassles they encounter at the DMV. I don't condone crime, whether it's one person robbing another because they're too lazy to work for the money or someone cheating the government because they're too lazy to stand in line at the DMV. To accept one behavior but not the other is inconsistent -- you can't be just a little wrong any more than you can be just a little pregnant. Furthermore, inconsistent adult "values," like it's okay to break this law but not that law, confuses young people, who learn how to behave as adults by mirroring the examples they've observed. As Ronnie noted, you've invested considerable time pitching your position and searching out links to support that position. Perhaps the time would've been better spent paying your dues at the DMV and setting an example of honesty and responsibility worth emulating.

Probably not - it's a chance I'm willing to take. If it happens, with my luck it will be the people you saw but didn't report.

Give it up, noone. This thread needs to die out. I appreciate where you're coming from, but you're just beating a horse half to death...

dntw8up, perhaps I was 17 at the time, and perhaps I learned a lesson from my experiences? That is part of growing up. Can anyone here seriously say they never committed a crime? No drinking and driving, always wear your seatbelt, not even taking a pen that does not belong to you off of a counter?

"can't be just a little wrong any more than you can be just a little pregnant."

Then why are there different laws and penalties for different crimes? According to you, we should give the death penalty for jaywalking!

Me thinks thou dost protest too much. The inspection process took me 30 minutes a couple of weeks ago. No one said that there should be the death penalty for jaywalking. But the environment that allows scofflaws will allow bigger crimes. You complain about "crime" while bending the rules to meet your own needs.

Your method of "argument" appears to be: make an inflammatory statement, then complain when someone calls you on it.

noone,

"can't be just a little wrong any more than you can be just a little pregnant."

"Then why are there different laws and penalties for different crimes?"

The issue isn't penalties. Nobody except you has brought up penalties so don't go claiming that I think jaywalking should be a capital offense.

The isssue is that ripping off a tourist and ripping off the government are both crimes. I merely pointed out that all crime is crime, there's no ambivalence about the the definition of crime in the offenses we are discussing, and just as a woman is or is not pregnant, she knows whether or not her actions are criminal. You have staked out the position that your criminal actions are okay but the criminal actions of others are not okay and I don't happen to think your argument is credible. Many folks may share the perspective that ripping off the DMV doesn't hurt anyone so its okay but the fiscal state of the VI government is indicative that all crime has repercussions.

And though it's none of your business, no, I've never driven after consuming alcohol and I always wear my seatbelt. You're assuming behavior of the world at large and fortunately only a small percentage break the laws that you've noted.