Crime

Posted by: @stcmike

This is not to meant to be another post bout how bad crime is in the USVI, or how the figures can be misleading because it is heavily concentrated around housing projects (as if the location should give a person a sense of security). The bottom line is we all know crime in the VI is out of hand and there doesn't seem to be anything the average citizen can do except live in gated communities, get large dogs, don't leave your residence after 5pm and get a gun. In other words we are living like prisoners in paradise. I think its time the police force start an aggressive stop and frisk program. I realize this policy is controversial in particular in the states where racial harassment has occurred from how the police used the program, but that shouldn't be a problem here. 

What are your thoughts?  

 

My understanding is that the Police are family members or know the people committing the crime, so based on that alone having those type of programs in place are pointless.

You need an outside force to come in and clean up. Until then, can't see any positive changes.

Posted by: @stcmike

What are your thoughts?   

I don't really care anymore. It won't be my problem soon.

The crime seems to rise and fall and it's worse in times of economic difficulty, like after the big hurricanes and now. I don't think the "average citizen" has the luxury of living in a gated community and I definitely do not think that a stop and frisk program would EVER be supported or adopted. The community has been holding rallies and marches but, as a transplant, the VI does not exist to be your "paradise." Those are my thoughts. 🙂

Posted by: @scout77

The community has been holding rallies and marches but, as a transplant, the VI does not exist to be your "paradise."

This is an interesting comment.  As a "transplant" was crime a factor in your decision to move here?  As recent seasonal/retirement "transplants" it was one of two major negative factors, much more so for my wife.  Crime and healthcare were the dominant negatives.  In our case (mine anyway) the warm people, seasonal climate, being part of the USA, size of the island (vs STJ), relative lack of tourism (vs STT) and the fact that we found a home that we love were the positives.

Maybe I'm a fool but I have to believe that both the crime and healthcare problems are solvable.  While this was not an assumption in our decision, there is no doubt in my mind it would be a great thing for both the community at large and the economic prospects for the island/territory.

I was doing  research on San Diego as a possible vacation location for next year. I just saw a statistic that I couldn't believe. In 2020 there have been 35 murders in San Diego, which has a population of 1.4 million. It has less murders than the VI even though its 14 times bigger and has a huge problem with street gangs. If this doesn't tell you that crime is out of hand here I don't know what else to say. It is sad to say this is no longer America's Paradise.

@jaldeborgh

I am curious what other locations did you consider?

@scout77

Crimes like robberies are somewhat related to economic times, but most of the recent spate of murders are most retaliatory and related to other crimes and murders.

@vicanuck

LOL!

@jaldeborgh I was actually born and raised on St.Thomas and I am now moving back with my husband and 2 young boys so it is definitely something I think about. I grew up hearing these same "murder capitol" headlines my whole life. I remember things getting much scarier after Hugo and Marilyn then getting better again and other times everyone being upset about the Ldc's and too much money in.

I do agree that these issues are potentially solvable. Health care is a disaster in all of the US. I hope things take a turn in the next administration but I am not holding my breath. 

My mom taught at CAHS for many many years and the cycle of poverty is pretty overwhelming. I don't have any answers except that the changes need to be to the economy not to add more checks and punishments. 

@islandjoan It's all connected. More people resort to crime including drug dealing and gang activity when there are fewer jobs. 

The territory averages 40 homicides per year. As of October 10, there have been 38 homicides in 2020.

So 2020 is not a banner year - yet - for murders.  

Do you have statistics on other felony crimes?

https://stcroixsource.com/2020/01/01/homicide-virgin-islands-young-men-dead-street-2/

https://stthomassource.com/content/2020/10/10/253161/

Legalizing marijuana - growing and distributing - would be a first step to stop the flow of all illegal drugs and drug money through the Virgin Islands.  

Posted by: @vicanuck

Posted by: @stcmike

What are your thoughts?   

I don't really care anymore. It won't be my problem soon.

Not very productive to this discussion and you must care enough to post.

You have made it very clear on this forum that you are DONE with the VI.  Well that's all well and good and best wishes on your next place of residence.

But think about your tone and this message of idgaf about the VI. Unfortunately you seem to be like many of the other transplants that have come and gone. You got yours, made your money, and now its time to leave without a second thought to the community which provided your livelihood.  And if your money was made off island, at least have some respect for the the place that provided you with food and shelter for how every many years you have been here and the community you have interacted with.

As for crime.  Try stop reading and watching all news for a couple weeks and then let me know how bad it is.  Sure its there, but does it impact you?  Probably not and this is the case the world over.  Crime is everywhere, some places worse than others. 

Be cognizant of where you live, where you go, and who you interact with no matter where you happen to be on this earth. And remember, the media is about clicks and ads.  Its in their best interest to show negative news because that what generates the $$$.  You will be astounded how your life improves when you eliminate the news and social media from your life.  Focus on what's important and find and pursue your passions in life...

QM

I just read an article that said the murder rate in San Francisco is up 45% from last year. I believe New York's is through the roof as well. Sign of the times.

The reason for the high murder rate can't be exclusively be because of drugs and gangs. Every US city (and many suburbs) have problems with drugs and gangs. I go back to my San Diego example, they have a tremendous problems with both drugs and gangs, partially because they are right on the border. I think part of the reason we have such a problem here is our casual acceptance that crime has become a way of life here. Either the police just don't care because maybe their family members may be involved in criminal activity or they just don't have the resources to seriously prevent crime. I don't have any answers I am just venting and I am feeling a little frustrated about the things I see in the community. Poor education, high crime, horrible health system, terrible roads, litter and just a sense people are just trying to survive rather than thrive. I guess I really do need a vacation.

@stcmike

I've always wondered, does the BVI and other places such as Cayman islands etc have the same issues with crime? I ask because I honestly don't know. 

@stxdreaming1

I believe crime is much lower in the BVI but it is also much smaller. They also have a lot more social services available like health care at no cost for a lot of the population. I have also heard that there are requirements to live there like having references and no criminal record. 

The VI is a stop on the trail of illegal marijuana/other drugs/drug money from South America through the Caribbean and into the SE United States. 

If you pick through the lists of young men (some women too) killed in gang related murders in the VI over the years, you see the relatives of VI "leading families."

VI is a shipping point for drugs, money and guns. It's an untaxed, unregulated business where lots of money can be made quickly off the books. In many respects, it is the family business. The bodies are obviously acceptable collateral damage.

Sure, the VI could crack down and stop some of the carnage - but who does that benefit if the drug business by-passes the VI? There's way too much money and influence to be had in keeping it just like it is. 

Why is California different? Mexican cartels are like big corporations and not headquartered in the US. In the VI, drug trafficking is a family business where vendettas can be very personal. Also California has legalized marijuana for all intents and purposes. 

Posted by: @stcmike

I am curious what other locations did you consider?

We've traveled a fair amount in the Caribbean, Mexico and Central America.  Places we thought we could live were Roatan, Bahama's (Green Turtle Key, Eleuthera, Abacos), St Lucia and Bequia were/are among our favorites.  Generally the smaller, slightly off the beaten path places are what we are most comfortable with, we're not resort people.  All have their positives and minuses, ultimately we decided being in a US territory was most important.  When it came to the USVI's, my wife preferred STJ but I was more drawn to STX, as a to me STJ was more appealing for a 2 week vacation but lacked the infrastructure I felt would be necessary as a seasonal resident, for half the year, this is only my opinion.

Posted by: @stxdreaming1

I just read an article that said the murder rate in San Francisco is up 45% from last year. I believe New York's is through the roof as well. Sign of the times.

Yes, a sign of the times, likely to get far worse before it gets better.  Unfortunately this will hurt the lower end of the socioeconomic scale far more than the relatively/more affluent. It's a big part of the accelerating exodus of the big cities, by those that can afford it.  Our big city politicians seem fine with doing nothing to address the problem, very sad.

San Francisco's homicide rate for 2019 was down 11% from 2018. The number of murders was the lowest in 60 years.

https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/san-francisco/san-francisco-officials-unveil-new-crime-stats/2218901/

San Francisco's homicide rate is up 23% in August though violent crimes are down 19%.

https://www.sanfranciscopolice.org/sites/default/files/2020-09/AugCompstat.20200930.pdf

NYC is having some crime though.

https://www1.nyc.gov/site/nypd/news/pr1002/nypd-citywide-crime-statistics-september-2020

Google is your friend.

Posted by: @gators_mom

The VI is a stop on the trail of illegal marijuana/other drugs/drug money from South America through the Caribbean and into the SE United States. 

If you pick through the lists of young men (some women too) killed in gang related murders in the VI over the years, you see the relatives of VI "leading families."

VI is a shipping point for drugs, money and guns. It's an untaxed, unregulated business where lots of money can be made quickly off the books. In many respects, it is the family business. The bodies are obviously acceptable collateral damage.

Sure, the VI could crack down and stop some of the carnage - but who does that benefit if the drug business by-passes the VI? There's way too much money and influence to be had in keeping it just like it is. 

Why is California different? Mexican cartels are like big corporations and not headquartered in the US. In the VI, drug trafficking is a family business where vendettas can be very personal. Also California has legalized marijuana for all intents and purposes. 

 

from the Economist 2014

Well said Queen Mary,

“As for crime. Try stop reading and watching all news for a couple weeks and then let me know how bad it is. Sure its there, but does it impact you? Probably not and this is the case the world over. Crime is everywhere, some places worse than others.

Be cognizant of where you live, where you go, and who you interact with no matter where you happen to be on this earth. And remember, the media is about clicks and ads. Its in their best interest to show negative news because that what generates the $$$. You will be astounded how your life improves when you eliminate the news and social media from your life. Focus on what's important and find and pursue your passions in life...“

Posted by: @gators_mom

San Francisco's homicide rate is up 23% in August though violent crimes are down 19%.

Not sure about you but to me SFO has become a filthy dump.  I’ve spent a lot of time in the Bay Area over the last 30+ years and the decline is shocking.  It’s become a fowl smelling, down right scary place to walk around at night and I’m talking about the area around the Moscone Center.  Also, if it’s so great why are people leaving in droves. 

I have seen VIPD setup roadblocks to check vehicle registrations lately with at least a half dozen police vehicles present.  Not exactly stop and frisk but once they stop they can be on the lookout for other illicit activity.  And if they get a runner I'd assume they'd attempt a pursuit.