Blatant Racism - STT STJ Ferry

As I always say, when you point your finger at someone, three fingers are pointing back at you. There are differences on all three islands. Some like one more than the others. Such is life. The dynamic is totally different for all three. So what you like is where you should stay. Condemning one over the other is rather childish. JMHO

We all have attitudes, or perspectives based on experience. During my early visits to stx while living on stt, I detected a difference in the people., Initially I thought it was just me, but as this difference was confirmed by almost all other people I have encountered whenever the subject has come up (neighbors, church, friends, acquaintances, business associates), I stopped thinking it was just me. Like I said, bad things happen everywhere. I still get asked for my receipt when leaving KMart while the "local" person in front of and behind me does not. But that doesn't bother me as it is the exception and not the rule.On stt, it is close to being the rule. I am not at all surprised by the OP's experience. See comments from Trip Advisor and other boards about the rudeness of people in stt. It is well known and well documented.. btw, trainwreck, how many months did you spend on stx?

I have a few theories as to why stt has this reputation, but am not sure if any are true....just speculation:
- after decades of tourists visiting the islands, made of up of alot of white people with demanding attitudes who look down on islanders, these rude attitudes develop as a defense? and who can blame them? I am not sure I could put up with that crap for a long period of time.
- stx has a not insignificant puerto rican population, a people known for their welcoming and positive energy and attitude, which can be contagious. I know I am stereotyping here, but this is just speculation after all.
-stt has been able to fall back on the tourism industry to help its economy even during struggling times. stx has no such foundation and even before hovensa closed, has had to band together to survive. I feel more of a sense of community here than in stt.

Others can certainly disagree, but I hope they do so with a broad base of experience.

As I always say, when you point your finger at someone, three fingers are pointing back at you. There are differences on all three islands. Some like one more than the others. Such is life. The dynamic is totally different for all three. So what you like is where you should stay. Condemning one over the other is rather childish. JMHO

I think it is important for people thinking about relocating to these islands, to know there is a difference among them. It would be a shame for someone with a bad experience visiting stt to paint all islands with the same broad brush. the positives should be pointed out too. true that.

But this particular difference seems to be mostly in your mind and perceptions.

But the difference seems to be mostly in your mind and perceptions.

And many people share the same perception - locals and continentals alike - as she's mentioned. Why is your perception more valid than hers?

Each to their own. If it's her perception, she's allowed to have it and share it, she's not hurting anyone, except perhaps the feelings of people who don't agree with her. Those who want to listen will, those who don't, won't.

Exactly!

As someone who has lived and worked in both STT and STX for several years- people on STX tend to be a LOT friendlier.

Yes, this is a generalization, yes there are thousands of wonderful people on STT, but in my personal experience, there is a noticeable, significant difference in attitude and friendliness.

We all have attitudes, or perspectives based on experience. During my early visits to stx while living on stt, I detected a difference in the people., Initially I thought it was just me, but as this difference was confirmed by almost all other people I have encountered whenever the subject has come up (neighbors, church, friends, acquaintances, business associates), I stopped thinking it was just me. Like I said, bad things happen everywhere. I still get asked for my receipt when leaving KMart while the "local" person in front of and behind me does not. But that doesn't bother me as it is the exception and not the rule.On stt, it is close to being the rule. I am not at all surprised by the OP's experience. See comments from Trip Advisor and other boards about the rudeness of people in stt. It is well known and well documented.. btw, trainwreck, how many months did you spend on stx?

I have a few theories as to why stt has this reputation, but am not sure if any are true....just speculation:
- after decades of tourists visiting the islands, made of up of alot of white people with demanding attitudes who look down on islanders, these rude attitudes develop as a defense? and who can blame them? I am not sure I could put up with that crap for a long period of time.
- stx has a not insignificant puerto rican population, a people known for their welcoming and positive energy and attitude, which can be contagious. I know I am stereotyping here, but this is just speculation after all.
-stt has been able to fall back on the tourism industry to help its economy even during struggling times. stx has no such foundation and even before hovensa closed, has had to band together to survive. I feel more of a sense of community here than in stt.

Others can certainly disagree, but I hope they do so with a broad base of experience.[/quote

I agree with your observation 100%. Most tourist havens seem to promote bad behavior and attitudes.

 

We all have attitudes, or perspectives based on experience. During my early visits to stx while living on stt, I detected a difference in the people., Initially I thought it was just me, but as this difference was confirmed by almost all other people I have encountered whenever the subject has come up (neighbors, church, friends, acquaintances, business associates), I stopped thinking it was just me. Like I said, bad things happen everywhere. I still get asked for my receipt when leaving KMart while the "local" person in front of and behind me does not. But that doesn't bother me as it is the exception and not the rule.On stt, it is close to being the rule. I am not at all surprised by the OP's experience. See comments from Trip Advisor and other boards about the rudeness of people in stt. It is well known and well documented.. btw, trainwreck, how many months did you spend on stx?

I have a few theories as to why stt has this reputation, but am not sure if any are true....just speculation:
- after decades of tourists visiting the islands, made of up of alot of white people with demanding attitudes who look down on islanders, these rude attitudes develop as a defense? and who can blame them? I am not sure I could put up with that crap for a long period of time.
- stx has a not insignificant puerto rican population, a people known for their welcoming and positive energy and attitude, which can be contagious. I know I am stereotyping here, but this is just speculation after all.
-stt has been able to fall back on the tourism industry to help its economy even during struggling times. stx has no such foundation and even before hovensa closed, has had to band together to survive. I feel more of a sense of community here than in stt.

Others can certainly disagree, but I hope they do so with a broad base of experience.

I agree with your observation 100%. Most tourist havens seem to promote bad behavior and attitudes.

Yep. Like I was amazed at how bad Cancun was when we visited there. I know most Mexicans aren't like that. But when you think about (and see) all the obnoxious Americans going through there, it makes sense that the locals wouldn't feel too keen on tourists much any more.

It's also why people on St. Croix have a love/hate relationship with trying to encourage tourism. Most folks I know say they really don't want it to get all touristy and lose it's "authentic" feel. But the general sense is the island really needs it right now as an alternate source of revenue for the economy.

Maybe I'm oblivious, and I've only lived in STT for 6 months, but we've experienced literally zero racism against us (or others), and found all the people we have encountered that live here to be generally quite friendly, and not at all rude. And it's not like was came from a stereotypically rude place like NYC/NJ - we came from the Midwest where people are pretty friendly to begin with.

Not to discount the experiences of others, but sometimes things that seem like racism really aren't - when someone ahead or behind you in a line, or wherever, seems to be getting treated or interacted with in a better or nicer manner than you it would be a myriad of things that you have no idea about. I'm of course not saying racism doesn't exist, and exist to some degree all over the world, but sometimes perceiving that you have been treated differently because of your ethnic background is drawing a false conclusion. IMHO you're much better off in life (and usually more accurate) to generally assume that the person who seems to be slighting you really does not give a crap what you look like any more than you would care what their skin color looks like.

I agree but the bottom line is that the OP did have a VI DL to prove and get the local discount and didn't. Regardless of race that's wrong.

Honestly I had not experienced more than one instance of racism towards me (that I noticed) until the Ag. Fair couple weeks back. I felt VERY uncomfortable there and had quite a few stare downs and teeth sucking. I was SHOCKED by what the guys and girls on stage were preaching. I stopped and sat and listened and It wasn't constructive but IMO hateful and CLEARLY about race. I don't live like that and try not to notice it but it was sad.

I don't remember feeling at all uncomfortable on STX Ag. Fair.

We go every year to the STX Ag. Fair and I agree with AandA2VI, no teeth sucking or rudeness toward us ever. And they never blink giving us a Senior discount where at other places teeth sucking is the norm. :o)

I don't remember feeling at all uncomfortable on STX Ag. Fair.

The only reason I ever felt uncomfortable at the STX Ag Fair was because my outfit wasn't fabulous enough! Dress up to go! LOL

I agree, I think you really see the love hate relationship with the tourism trade on St. Thomas, probably more so than on any of the other islands since St. Thomas is the tourist hub of the VI. It wasn't as bad in the late 60's and early 70's, but you could see it starting to build. From what I have gathered from the locals while I was there, their issues mainly stem from RUDE stateside visitors, who want to change things. Their other main complaint is stateside folks coming to the islands and buying up the property, causing the prices to skyrocket, which leaves the poor islander who fishes for a living with no way to be able to afford a place of their own unless they were fortunate enough to be left property through family.

We all have attitudes, or perspectives based on experience. During my early visits to stx while living on stt, I detected a difference in the people., Initially I thought it was just me, but as this difference was confirmed by almost all other people I have encountered whenever the subject has come up (neighbors, church, friends, acquaintances, business associates), I stopped thinking it was just me. Like I said, bad things happen everywhere. I still get asked for my receipt when leaving KMart while the "local" person in front of and behind me does not. But that doesn't bother me as it is the exception and not the rule.On stt, it is close to being the rule. I am not at all surprised by the OP's experience. See comments from Trip Advisor and other boards about the rudeness of people in stt. It is well known and well documented.. btw, trainwreck, how many months did you spend on stx?

I have a few theories as to why stt has this reputation, but am not sure if any are true....just speculation:
- after decades of tourists visiting the islands, made of up of alot of white people with demanding attitudes who look down on islanders, these rude attitudes develop as a defense? and who can blame them? I am not sure I could put up with that crap for a long period of time.
- stx has a not insignificant puerto rican population, a people known for their welcoming and positive energy and attitude, which can be contagious. I know I am stereotyping here, but this is just speculation after all.
-stt has been able to fall back on the tourism industry to help its economy even during struggling times. stx has no such foundation and even before hovensa closed, has had to band together to survive. I feel more of a sense of community here than in stt.

Others can certainly disagree, but I hope they do so with a broad base of experience.

I agree with your observation 100%. Most tourist havens seem to promote bad behavior and attitudes.

Yep. Like I was amazed at how bad Cancun was when we visited there. I know most Mexicans aren't like that. But when you think about (and see) all the obnoxious Americans going through there, it makes sense that the locals wouldn't feel too keen on tourists much any more.

It's also why people on St. Croix have a love/hate relationship with trying to encourage tourism. Most folks I know say they really don't want it to get all touristy and lose it's "authentic" feel. But the general sense is the island really needs it right now as an alternate source of revenue for the economy.

I agree but the bottom line is that the OP did have a VI DL to prove and get the local discount and didn't. Regardless of race that's wrong.

In fact, the OP did not mention having a VI DL. She said:

"am willing to show my passport (which shows USVI as place born) and USVI health card."

(Later in the post she also mentions "a set of car keys" - as though that in some way suffices as a form of local ID!!)

And that is what makes me think this whole thing is a personal issue rather than an indicator of racism, as Cruz mentioned early on in the thread. Neither of these documents mentioned above proves residency, which is what is needed for the local rate. The first only proves where you were born, and the second only proves you are eligible to work here.

I'd wager that the reason this person has not been able to produce proper ID demonstrating that she is a local resident is ... the fact that she isn't. And so she is pissed that other people, who may or may not be legally eligible for the discount she wants, are receiving it when she cannot.

I bought two ferry tickets the other day for me and my sweetie. We showed, respectively, a VI DL and a VI voter ID card. No problems, no attitude -- in fact, service with a smile.

Here's a good one: A person shows their VI senior ID and the cashier notes that it has expired. So not only do they lose out on the $1.50 ticket, she charges them the $7 instead of the $6 rate. LOL

Here's a good one: A person shows their VI senior ID and the cashier notes that it has expired. So not only do they lose out on the $1.50 ticket, she charges them the $7 instead of the $6 rate. LOL

Which reminded me of a funny story a friend of mine told me. I was about to go and get my Old Fart card a few years ago and, when I first mentioned it, he realized that his had expired (they're good for 5 years). Before I made it down to Human Services to get it, he went in to have his renewed. By then it was about 10 years out of date. The lady who took care of his renewal looked at the card, saw the date and said, "Oh, you really waited a long time to renew this. We usually assume someone's passed on when there's this much of a lapse." !!! She did add that she was happy to see that he was still going strong!

I agree but the bottom line is that the OP did have a VI DL to prove and get the local discount and didn't. Regardless of race that's wrong.

In fact, the OP did not mention having a VI DL. She said:

"am willing to show my passport (which shows USVI as place born) and USVI health card."

(Later in the post she also mentions "a set of car keys" - as though that in some way suffices as a form of local ID!!)

And that is what makes me think this whole thing is a personal issue rather than an indicator of racism, as Cruz mentioned early on in the thread. Neither of these documents mentioned above proves residency, which is what is needed for the local rate. The first only proves where you were born, and the second only proves you are eligible to work here.

I'd wager that the reason this person has not been able to produce proper ID demonstrating that she is a local resident is ... the fact that she isn't. And so she is pissed that other people, who may or may not be legally eligible for the discount she wants, are receiving it when she cannot.

I bought two ferry tickets the other day for me and my sweetie. We showed, respectively, a VI DL and a VI voter ID card. No problems, no attitude -- in fact, service with a smile.

You're right. I did not provide a VI DL. The degree of legitimacy in regards to the forms of my ID/ID(s) to you or anyone else isn't the point of the post. I even admitted, I would not mind having to provide ID if it were the standard. At this point, my seemingly silly car keys with Cost U Less card are as good as nothing. I just want to see the 5 people in front of me be ID'ed as well.

My next move is to show my paycheck stub since she stated "something with a local address". I do live here, I do work here, I do not have a VI DL. I'm out $4.00 now after last night- again I was refused the local rate despite wearing a local work uniform but again, am white and actually witnessed stateside blacks get the $6.00 rate.

Do you pay taxes through the IRB? If so, then you are definitely a local with a legitimate complaint.

I see a lot of "residents" who retain stateside licenses illegally for various reasons (often health insurance), file taxes elsewhere (if they pay them at all), obviously aren't called for jury duty around here, and then get outraged when they don't qualify for "local discounts". Sorry, folks, but y'all can't play it both ways. I have no idea whether this is the case for you; just saying I see it a lot and haven't much sympathy when it happens.

Either way, continue to try calling Varlack Ventures and Transportation Services for further details on how you might resolve your problem. Let us know how it turns out.

"You're right. I did not provide a VI DL."

I'm sure you already know this but if you've been in the USVI over 90 days you're technically driving illegally if you haven't obtained a VI license. That and/or a voter registration card are the most commonly accepted forms of identification here. A local pay stub doesn't prove you're a legitimate VI resident.

"You're right. I did not provide a VI DL."

I'm sure you already know this but if you've been in the USVI over 90 days you're technically driving illegally if you haven't obtained a VI license. That and/or a voter registration card are the most commonly accepted forms of identification here. A local pay stub doesn't prove you're a legitimate VI resident.

It is not a requirement to have a VI Drivers License to live here. I know many people who do not drive and still live here. Other forms of ID must be acceptable.

It is not a requirement to have a VI Drivers License to live here. I know many people who do not drive and still live here. Other forms of ID must be acceptable.

I asked the cashier the other night, and she said any photo ID that shows your local address will work. Driver's license, voter ID card, senior ID card are the only ones I can think of. Unlike stateside, the BMV here doesn't issue ID cards for non-drivers.

Just don't try using a set of car keys as ID when you don't have a VI driver's license! 😀

It is not a requirement to have a VI Drivers License to live here. I know many people who do not drive and still live here. Other forms of ID must be acceptable.

Of course not. That's not what I was remarking on but pointing out that the poster (who obviously drives as she has car keys) should be aware that, legally, you're required to obtain a VI driver's license if you've lived here for 90+ days.

fdr: I had no idea that some DMVs in the states issue IDs to non-drivers. Learn something new every day!

Granted the OP should have proper ID for the local rate, when asked to show proof of residency.

However that does not excuse the fact that he/she saw many people of color receiving the local rate without showing ID of any sort - which is the whole point of the OP's posting here.

The OP is saying that people of color are being waved through at the local rate while she is asked for specific local ID to prove that she is indeed, local, and she claims that that difference in treatment is based upon the color of her skin. The quality of the ID is separate discussion, but that is not the point being made here.

I was refused the local rate despite wearing a local work uniform but again, am white and actually witnessed stateside blacks get the $6.00 rate.

This.