Atheism in the USVI

"Evangelizing Athiests" ...now I've heard of everything

Neil,
For thirty years I was a passive atheist, but I have noticed that the religious are not passive. They are in your face every where you go. From putting their god on our money to having prayers at public meetings and sporting events to roadside signs. We fight wars because of religion and base our national policy on it.

I used to just shrug it off. But then it became obvious to me that we were never going to grow out of this insanity called "religion" until people start standing up and calling it what it is, superstitious nonsense. Most people no longer believe in ghosts or witches, but the Christians in Massachusetts were killing witches just a few hundred years ago. They must have been inspired by god.

Religion has done more to impede human progress than any other thing in our history. Just think about Copernicus and Galileo. This has gone on again over and over.

I find it amusing that I started this thread because a christian complained about my atheist sig. So this thread is clearly labeled "Atheism" and yet the Christians even come here to complain. It would be like me going into a thread asking about christian churches and asking them why they would want to waste their time going to church. I'm sure the Christians on that thread would complain. That is part of the problem in this country, the Christians feel privileged.

We mentioned Church of the FSM earlier. You should check out some of the hate mail sent to them by Christians.

http://www.venganza.org/category/hate-mail/

Can you imagine the uproar if atheists started going onto christian church websites and leaving hate mail like this?

The problem that we atheist face is a lack of organization, like they say "Organizing Atheists is like trying to herd cats." But now we are forming national organizations and speaking out in favor of reason over superstition.

http://www.ffrf.org/
http://www.atheists.org/
http://www.secular.org/
http://www.infidels.org/

changesinlattitide,

Imagine..by John Lennon is the theme song for FreeThough Radio on the Air America network. Every show starts with Imagine. They are on every Saturday morning or you can pick up the podcasts here:
http://www.ffrf.org/radio/podcast/

i mean no offense to anyone but i truly believe that organized religion of any form is the root of all evil in the world today,i believe in a "power greater than myself" but in nothing organized.

My two cents only counts for crap, but I agree.

I have a very strong belief in God, in a Deistic sense, like the bulk of the founders of the USofA. I do not subscribe to ANY religion, and I believe all religion has done much more harm than good.

/should we get into how Judaism/Christianity/Islam is one all-encompassing pagan religion?

I find it amusing that I started this thread because a christian complained about my atheist sig. So this thread is clearly labeled "Atheism" and yet the Christians even come here to complain. It would be like me going into a thread asking about christian churches and asking them why they would want to waste their time going to church. I'm sure the Christians on that thread would complain. That is part of the problem in this country, the Christians feel privileged.

roto

Funny you said that. I am sure I went on some posts like that and mocked at there religion. I have always enjoy a good religion argument. I have been chill on this topic because you have been doing a good job and you write better then me. Bill Maher on HBO has been good for are cause.

I don't no how to quote you with the box

Rotorhead: Just curious. Are you an "offensive atheist"--that is, are you categorically denying the existence of God or are you a "defensive atheist"--that is,one who believes we cannot know if God exists?

I have never heard that distinction before and I think it is a distinction without a difference, as atheists don't believe in god(s) because there is no evidence that god(s) exist(s).

antiqueone has been reading "Putting The Atheist on The Defensive" by Kenneth R. Samples.
This is an article from the Christian Research Journal.

This article suggests that it is not the responsibility of the faithful to prove that god exists, it is the responsibility of the atheist to prove that god doesn't exist. This is pretty absurd. Can you prove that unicorns don't exist? Does that mean that you believe in unicorns? Think of all of the other things that you can't prove don't exist. Ghosts? Demons? Zeus? Ra? FSM? Are we to believe in them as well?

"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."
Carl Sagan

Rotohead... you're a bit disingenuous: nobody posts here hoping for no reaction. Let's at least admit that.
And you're smart enough to know that posting about a lively issue on an internet message board is sure to bring reaction.

It's like your helicopter.... you fly low knowing it ticks some people off, probably IN PART because you LIKE ticking people off. I have no problem with that. But don't then act all surprised.... stick to your guns and admit you like to stir it up!

Now....Regarding organized religion being the root of all evil today.
The 250 million people slaughtered in two World Wars, the Korean war, the Vietnam War (etc etc) -if they could speak, would probably disagree with your assessment that organized religion was to blame. Since the beginning of time it has been the human animal's greed and the desire for power that have been the great evils, following closely by how easy it is for people to sublimate their will to that of a charismatic leader. Athiests aren't immune to these problems because they too are human and end up creating new gods just like everyone else. This is one of the lessons learned from China and the USSR's experiment with athiesm, but this doesn't mean athiesm is therefore the root of all evil.

btw.... Care to venture WHICH two countries have the fastest growing Christian churches? If you said China and Russia, you'd be correct. In fact, there are more Christians in China now than in the USA. Please don't misundertand me, however. I do NOT put this out here as vindication for that particular religion. Rather, I note it to to show that there is something in the human spirit that does not like being repressed. Unfortunately, as history has taught, that innate desire can also be co-opted for evil purposes as well. No surprise there. And actually, most of the major religions caution against just such things.

In ancient Hebrew numerology (yes there is such a thing), the number for perfection or God was '7' and the number for evil was '6'. The mystics have thus long understood the true nature of good and evil... they can appear to be deceivingly quite close to each other. Which I find to be a sobering thought.

Neil,

Are you saying that when I posted asking if there were other atheists in the USVI that I was inviting theists to reply. When a christian comes on here and asks if there is an xxx denomination church on St Croix they are expecting replies from atheists?

Or are you suggesting that atheism is somehow a hot issue always open for discussion but theism is not?

As for flying my helicopter, I do not fly low to tick people off. I fly low so that I can see things on the ground. Do you think that people who ride motorcycles do so to tick people off? I fly within the parameters allowed by the FAA.

No one has ever started a war in the name of atheism.

Love&Peace

No one has ever started a war in the name of atheism.

Certainly can't say that about religion!

Starting wars in the name of atheism? Think Hitler, Pol Pot, Stalin, Lenin, Che, Mao. None of them could stand the concept of God and did their best to stamp out faith. Actually, another thought. Given the size of the universe, and the incredible complexity of it, I would think it takes alot more faith to be an atheist than to believe in God. Kenneth Samples was one of many I read and I only asked because it helps to understand you better. Btw, I like seeing the helicopter!
Cheers,

antiqueone,

I don't think it takes a lot of faith to admit to yourself that you don't have all of the answers. The great philosophical questions about where were came from, why is man here and what happens when we die. I don't know the answers but I do not feel a need to "make up" the answers with no proof to support them. That's what religion does. God says this is the way it is! Don't ask questions! I have never seen a miracle and am not superstitious.

Science on the other hand is a process of gradual refinement. Science says this is the way we think things work but if new information comes along we will change our views. I call myself an atheist, but if overwhelming evidence comes along to support the existence of a god I will change my mind. It would have to be very overwhelming, and it couldn't just be superior technology. That's the difference between man today and bronze age man 2000 years ago. I couldn't be easily impressed by a cigarette lighter or a pair of walkie talkies, they probably would have.

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."
Arthur C. Clarke

If the bible was truly inspired by a god then why does it only contain information known to bronze age men? Why were men called heretics for saying that the earth is round or that the earth revolves around the sun, not the other way around?

Funny you mention Hitler as an example of atheism. He was raised catholic. Did you ever read "Mein Kampf"? Here is a quote.
"Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord."

Or maybe his speeches.
"My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. To-day, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice... And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows. For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people.

-Adolf Hitler, in a speech on 12 April 1922 (Norman H. Baynes, ed. The Speeches of Adolf Hitler, April 1922-August 1939, Vol. 1 of 2, pp. 19-20, Oxford University Press, 1942)

Neil, I didn't start this thread to stir things up but I will not shy away from lively discussion. You are certainly welcome to join in. As one of my ex bosses used to say "If you don't have an opinion then what good are you?"

...............................Rather, I note it to to show that there is something in the human spirit that does not like being repressed. ........................
.

Or perhaps long ago some innocent looked up into the sky and felt of so terribly small and insignificant and confounded by what he saw and someone a little more politically savvy realized he could manipulate people with a fanciful tale and so religion was born?

If you asked me 40 years ago I would have proclaimed my self an atheist as a badge of pride.
Now with time on earth I have come to realize I don't even know the questions let alone have the answers.
So I don't worry myself with question and only ask I be left alone. How many people have been killed in (a) gods name?
Sorry if I'm not ready to accept that a bunch of goat herders had a direct line to the almighty.
Nor do I believe science is going to unscrew the inscrutable. Fore every more powerful atom smasher prolly find even smaller particles inside smaller particles - like a Russian doll ad infinitum

"So nat'ralists observe, a flea
Hath smaller fleas that on him prey,
And these have smaller fleas that bite 'em,
And so proceed ad infinitum."

"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?

If God were to come down to every person, even Rotorhead, and proclaim that in 30 days he/she wanted there to be only one religion, you would see the biggest blood bath the world has ever know. All of the religions would try to kill the other because they knew they were the chosen one.
I tend to agree with TRW.

Rotorhead: I stand corrected about Hitler. He was crazed for sure, but he claimed Christianity as his own. I think that's why we see so much violence in the name of religion: too many people put on the mantle of religion without knowing God. I don't know all the answers either, but I do know God exists. I have seen him work in so many lives. I have seen enough miracles or at least surprising happenings for which no one seems to be able to come up with a logical, scientific explanation....I have seen His creation so I'm pretty certain that He is there.
Doesn't atheism (or is it perhaps agnosticism) leave your kind of empty in your walk through life? I mean, everyone believes in something....WC Fields believed...."I'll have another drink" after all. Do you honestly believe that there is no purpose in life at all except to exist?

Doesn't atheism (or is it perhaps agnosticism) leave your kind of empty in your walk through life? I mean, everyone believes in something....WC Fields believed...."I'll have another drink" after all. Do you honestly believe that there is no purpose in life at all except to exist?

For me it doesn't. It actually enhances my experience and perception in my walk though life. I can see the world and its people not just through the paradigm of religion but with open eyes with no guilt or restrictions and an open mind to new ideas, phiosophies and phenomenon.

Rotorhead,

By God, I think I love you! 😀

Rotohead...
You were disingenuous -not because of your original post, but because of your continued use of the thread to promote athiesm as evidenced by all the quotes. I have no problem with either, but don't act so surprised that people might want to disagree with you. Hell, they disagree about pizza on the island too.

antiqueone,

“Prayers never bring anything. . . . They may bring solace to the sap, the bigot, the ignorant, the aboriginal, and the
lazy--but to the enlightened it is the same as asking Santa Claus to bring you something for Xmas.”
-- W.C. Fields, cited by Warren Allen Smith in Who's Who in Hell

“I cannot imagine a God who rewards and punishes the objects of his creation, whose purposes are modeled after our own--a God, in short, who is but a reflection of human frailty. Neither can I believe that the individual survives the death of his body, although feeble souls harbor such thoughts through fear or ridiculous egotism. It is enough for me to contemplate the mystery of conscious life perpetuating itself through all eternity, to reflect upon the marvelous structure of the universe which we can dimly perceive, and to try humbly to comprehend even an infinitesimal part of the intelligence manifested in nature.”
-- Albert Einstein, column for The New York Times, Nov. 9, 1930 (reprinted in The New York Times obituary, April 19, 1955)

“We all ought to understand we're on our own. Believing in Santa Claus doesn't do kids any harm for a few years but it isn't smart for them to continue waiting all their lives for him to come down the chimney with something wonderful. Santa Claus and God are cousins.
Christians talk as though goodness was their idea but good behavior doesn't have any religious origin. Our prisons are filled with the devout.
I'd be more willing to accept religion, even if I didn't believe it, if I thought it made people nicer to each other but I don't think it does.”
-- Andy Rooney, Sincerely, Andy Rooney, 1999.

Rotor,
Nobody's ever going to mistake WC Fields, Mark Twain and Albert Einstein for paragons of moral virtue.
And I seriously doubt anyone will be quoting Andy Rooney in 25 years.
Who else you got there? 😎

"You can't convince a believer of anything; for their belief is not based on evidence, it's based on a deep seated need to believe. "
Dr. Arroway in Carl Sagan's Contact (New York: Pocket Books, 1985

“I cannot believe in the immortality of the soul. . . . I am an aggregate of cells, as, for instance, New York City is an aggregate of individuals. Will New York City go to heaven? . . . . No; nature made us--nature did it all--not the gods of the religions.”
-- Thomas Alva Edison, The New York Times, Oct. 2, 1910 ("No Immortality of the Soul" Says Thomas A. Edison, interview by Edward Marshall)

"One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We're no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. it is simply too painful to acknowledge -- even to ourselves -- that we've been so credulous. (So the old bamboozles tend to persist as the new bamboozles rise.)"
Carl Sagan, The Fine Art of Baloney Detection

Neil,

I would love to see your list of paragons of moral virtue whose quotes will live on.

Maybe Jim Bakker or Jimmy Swaggart. Or maybe Jerry Falwell or Paul Crouch?

If one must be a paragon of moral virtue to be credible when expressing one's disbelief in god(s), then one should also have to be a paragon of moral virtue to be credible when expressing one's belief in god(s), and I believe one of the few things on which all religions agree is that no human is a paragon of moral virtue.