Ariona Law

It's the end of the world as we know it.
It's the end of the world as we know it.

It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine.

Author and song title. Who knows it?

Hint: this artist also sang, "This one goes out to the one I love".

paul mccartney??

dougtamjj,

Seeing what is happening is Arizona, I think you are right. For some reason though, I think it is something else. I was just showing how I think the law is IMO could be looked at as racism, with things happening in Arizona. I guess these will be the last I put on this subject, because either way, it brings up emotions in all of us one way or another, whether it be immigration reform, the law itself, friends or family that may be involved either as an immigrant or against illegal immigration, employment.

"Joe Arpaio on False McDonald's Arrest: Take All Brown People into Custody, Release Citizens Later" http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/bastard/2010/03/joe_arpaio_on_false_mcdonalds.php A citizen was taken into custody for about 4 hours before being released. I guess this explains why I am worried about this law.

If the links for this don't work, google http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/bastard/anarchists

"The Anarchists Own the Nazis, and the Nazis Cause a Car Wreck as they Amscay" http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/bastard/2009/11/the_anarchist_own_the_nazis_a.php this has pictures of the nazis in full uniform on the streets - both beige and black combat uniforms

"Photo of Anarchist Assaulting a Horse at the Anti-Arpaio March, and Analysis of the Video it Came From (w/update)" http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/bastard/2010/01/photo_of_anarchist_assaulti.php this has pictures of the anarchists with full face and head covered in black.

This is spooky to me, yes, coming from California, this is spooky. I'm just not used to being in public with people displaying weapons unless they are either one a cop or a robber, if you know what I mean. Even though I grew up in street gang territory, this what I see happening in Arizona is more frightening to me. In a way, this reminds me of what I see on the news or programs of the streets in Mexico, meaning, how is this in Arizona any different from Mexico.

It's the end of the world as we know it.
It's the end of the world as we know it.

It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine.

Author and song title. Who knows it?

Author: R.E.M.
Title: It's the End of the World as We Know It (And I Feel Fine)
Year: 1987

None of those will pull up. However the New Times published in Phoenix is only slightly better than the Enquirer. IMHO
It is the free paper that is distributed in many places. Usually deals in what is going on at the bars movies, and concerts.

In Arizona it is legal to carry a gun if it is out in the open and to carry a concealed gun IF you have a carry permit. There are probably lots of people who have carry permits but I see very few people carrying guns in the open. You do see a few bikers who wear a gun on their hip. Many (all???) bars require that you check you gun at the door no mater how you carry it.
It does not seem to be a problem either way. Of course the criminals don't carry in the open nor do they have carry permits.

ADavis......

Had Obama done his job in securing our borders; the Arizona gov. would not have made that video. Let me guess you found humor in Obama's statement regarding illegals in Arizona? I, like the Gov. of Arizona didn't find Obama's statement funny.

Tippi

the government does not work that way. the president is hoping that both the house and congress vote up on the proposed immigration reform bill. shall i point you to schoolhouse rock so you can learn more about the life of a bill?

http://www.schoolhouserock.tv/Bill.html - this is why i tell people to contact their reps to tell them what they want.

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE63R5HP20100429 - please read.

the president cannot "secure the borders"... unless he is a dictator and not permitting the other branches of government to contribute to the process. i have never done this before on the vinow forum but i am actually feeling a bit exasperated with people who do not read and learn for themselves before parroting propaganda.

A Davis, much like he could not do health care reform by himself, but he managed to get that done, by making it his main agenda for a couple of years. If he wanted to make immigration reform happen he could do more then anyone else to make it happen. He (the president) is one of the most powerful men in the world. While technically you are correct to say he can't do it by himself he knows exactly how to get the ball rolling. He could absolutely tweak border patrol to make it a much more powerful tool like it is in every other country. The border patrol is not the military and he absolutely has to power to change things.

But he does not want to fix Arizona he will be using this to get reelected. Before this law he was going to work very hard to get reelected now it will be much easier unless this dies down quickly. I still think he is absolutely going to loose democratic majority in the Senate and the House this fall, because it is not the majority of the US that wants health care reform but the minority.

Most of the people on this board are leaning more toward 30s to 60 age range. I do not think anyone hear is parroting propaganda, but sharing their views based on their education and experience. You should never assume someone is an idiot because they don't agree with you, it just makes you look bad.

Native Son: If I were a Saudi in Saudi Arabia, I think it would be in my best interests to keep an eye on any American in my territory. Some will be drinking demon alcohol, others smoking pot, still others trying to steal my oil and others trying to spread horrible Christianity. But we are not there, we are here.

You don't profile individual criminals, you identify dangerous groups, like the KKK, skinheads, and potentially dangerous groups: young male arabs with no apparent income living like a king and spouting anti-American epithets, or non-English speaking hispanics who are wearing gang colors and don't have any ID. A 70 year old hispanic woman does not fit the profilel, nor does a 7 year old boy, even though he may be illegal. On the other hand, a black male near the Arizona border does not fit the current illegal immigrant profile. Nor does a white male wearing a sombrero. Still both the black and white males would be stopped and asked for IDs if they were speeding or had a broken tail light, right? What is wrong with that?

You are deliberately missing the point.

We need to look very closely at the reasons why people do things. For example, maybe those "Arab Muslims" that you happily demonise are angry because people are sitting in air-conditioned trailers in Nevada and remotely bombing their families thousands of miles away.

The Saudis don't need to keep an eye on Americans in Saudi Arabia because the Saudis are not flying drones over American towns and bombing them. You sound like someone who has bought into all of the propaganda being spouted by FOX and CNN, in their drive to get Americans to agree to genocide in the Middle East.

You will not get rid of illegal immigration because there is too much money involved. The businesses that hire illegals for a fraction of what they would pay an American worker would be very upset. Frankly, the only reason a lot of those businesses are still in America is because they cannot yet afford to outsource to..hahaha...Mexico, India, China, etc. They have no interest in hiring American workers and having to pay health insurance, high wages, vacation pay, retirement, etc etc.

By the way, WHY is there so much illegal immigration??? Again, look at REASONS...for example, is it possible, that CAFTA, NAFTA, and a host of other acronym-heavy "free trade" treaties enabled big agri-businesses to put millions of small farmers in Mexico out of work, thereby driving them across the border to work for pennies a day in order to support their families?

Methinks the situation is very, very complicated...

Most of the people on this board are leaning more toward 30s to 60 age range. I do not think anyone hear is parroting propaganda, but sharing their views based on their education and experience. You should never assume someone is an idiot because they don't agree with you, it just makes you look bad.

Jenn - Well Said!

Perhaps ADavis will read your statement and understand. By avoiding the question, one can assume she found Obama's statement funny.

A Davis and Native Son, I think you guys are right on the money. Native Son, yes I think that is the point, there's a company called Triple Canopy, a website called corpwatch.org wrote a piece on this company that was going into Peru to recruit mercenaries paying them like $30-40 a day to fight in Iraq and once they were injured they were taken back to Peru without (quote/unquote) proper compensation. Corpwatch does a lot of articles on corporations.

A Davis, you are right again, I think some people have not also looked at the U.S. Chamber of Commerce website. Also, some people have not bothered to check the different type of visas offered, such as the H2- visas, there are different classifications, one would allow Europeans to come in with full benefits of an American worker, the other without the extra protections and benefits.

A Davis, here's a little secret that most people don't know about, Cuba has a medical program for Blacks, Native Americans - this program is a 6 year medical school program FREE, all you need is transportation, they pay for room and board, if you do not speak Spanish they will give you a 12 week crash course, they pay for meals and medical, all that they require is that you provide medical services to low-income areas when you return home. You must be between ages of 18 and 30, no criminal record. This is an excellent opportunity especially since here in the U.S. medical students end up in debt for $200-300k - just google Cuba medical school for American Blacks free, or something along those lines. There's also reviews from former students, reviews were very positive.

Isn't it still illegal to go to Cuba unless you have family there? I wonder if a degree from Cuba is valid here in the US. I would have my doubts.
I think our relations with Cuba are so stupid. They talk about human rights and you can't go to Cuba but the US bends over for China.

Terry,

My understanding is it is an approved program through either the Black Caucus or something. I believe as long as you can pass the medical board exams here, it can be used. I do know that there are a lot of medical workers (doctors and nurses) here from India, the Philippines, etc. I'm not sure if they would have to take maybe one or two course here or there, but they are here. Also, I've read that there are doctors here that have used this medical program and are quite successful. I've also read that some of the students, after finishing the medical program, like Cuba so much that they would love to stay in that country, and there is less crime in Cuba than anywhere in the U.S. I guess the only drawback, something about Lobsters is illegal.

I do know that there are a lot of medical workers (doctors and nurses) here from India, the Philippines, etc. I'm not sure if they would have to take maybe one or two course here or there, but they are here.

I can't tell if by "here" you mean Cuba or in the U.S., but if you're talking about medical professionals working in the U.S.... I'm not sure about nurses, but I'm pretty sure that physicians who are graduates of medical schools outside the U.S. have to take the USMLE (U.S. Medical Licensing Exam - 4 parts, each 1-2 days long), pass an English profiency exam, and do a residency (3 years or longer of on-the-job training at minimal pay) in the U.S. in their desired specialty... no matter how many decades they may have been practicing outside the U.S. This is part of the reason there are so many former physicians from other countries who are now working as techs, phlebotomists, medical translators, medical transcriptionists, etc.

Here's a potentially useful timeline of relevant events surrounding the Arizona immigration law. Attempts to lay blame at the feet of any particular administration are mere partisan hack-ery by scoundrels. There is a serious problem in Arizona. Addressing the situation from any angle has been political suicide.

• 1996: Legislature passes a law requiring proof of citizenship to get a driver's license. Russell Pearce, director of the state Motor Vehicle Division, wrote the law.

• 1997: Chandler police and federal agents spend five days rounding up suspected illegal immigrants in downtown neighborhoods. They make 340 arrests, taking some legal residents into custody. City officials later pay $500,000 in legal settlements and spend years apologizing.

• 1998: Rep. Tom Smith, R-Phoenix, proposes a bill to require ID be shown at the polls. It fails in the Senate. Another bill requiring proof of citizenship to register to vote doesn't get out of committee.

• 1999: Arizona ranchers ask lawmakers to call on the National Guard to come to the border to suppress an "invasion." Effort goes nowhere, beyond some lawmakers reading a proclamation about border violations.

• 2000: Voters endorse a requirement for English immersion in schools, banning bilingual education. It passes 63 percent to 37 percent.

• 2001: Pearce begins first term as state representative.

• 2004: Pearce's son Sean, a Maricopa County Sheriff's Office deputy, is shot and wounded by an illegal immigrant.

• Moderate Republicans lose in GOP primaries, giving Legislature a more conservative tilt.

• Voters approve Proposition 200, which denies public benefits to people not in the country legally. Passes 56 percent to 44 percent.

• 2006: Pearce introduces a bill to make it a state crime to be in the country illegally and to allow peace officers to question an individual's immigration status. It also includes measures to restrict employers from hiring illegal immigrants. Gov. Janet Napolitano vetoes the bill.

• More than 100,000 march to the state Capitol to support comprehensive immigration reform on the national level. Similar large rallies are held in cities across the U.S.

• Voters endorse a trio of ballot measures related to illegal immigration, including requiring out-of-state college tuition from Arizona residents who can't prove citizenship and denying bail to illegal immigrants charged with a crime. They also approve a measure that makes English the state's official language. All four ballot measures pass with 70 percent-plus of vote.

• 2007: Phoenix Officer Nick Erfle is shot and killed by a fugitive who is an illegal immigrant.

• Legislature approves a bill that levies fines against employers found to have hired illegal immigrants. The bill gets bipartisan support and is signed by Napolitano.

• 2008: Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio begins conducting immigration sweeps.

• Phoenix Officer Shane Figueroa dies in a collision with a drunken driver in the country illegally.

• Republicans gain ground in legislative elections.

• January 2009: Republican Jan Brewer ascends to the Governor's Office when Napolitano resigns to join the Obama administration as Homeland Security secretary.

• January 2010: Pearce introduces Senate Bill 1070.

• February: SB 1070 passes Senate 17-13.

• March: Southern Arizona rancher Robert Krentz is murdered.

• April 13: Amended version of SB 1070 passes House 35-21.

• April 19: Senate gives final approval to amended SB 1070 with vote of 17-11. Bill goes to governor.

• April 23: Brewer signs SB 1070 into law.

• April 29: Three separate lawsuits challenging law's constitutionality are filed in federal court.

• April 30: Brewer signs into law SB 2650, which makes changes to SB 1070.

• July 29: Arizona's new immigration law scheduled to go into effect.

Read more: http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2010/05/09/20100509immigration-law-timeline.html#ixzz0nf6j3Kjn

It is also a crime to knowingly hire a illegal alien.
Many companies have been fined.

In today's economy with construction down there have been many, many illegals leave and go back home. Many of the ones coming here now are faced with lack of jobs if they were coming here for work at all.

Hi Roadrunner,
Yes, I am sorry. Here is meant the U.S.

BTW everyone, I have just learned that the company that provided the dome in the BP oil spill just collected almost $300 million in insurance payments. This is not being broadcast on the news, at least here in California. I think they are still trying to rip off the taxpayers, or at least benefitting at our expense.

I guess that is one of the reasons I opted to kinda back away from this issue of the Arizona bill, because, already, I know that is what the media and corporate America wants - people to fight against each other. Remember, the just passed a law that corporations are 'people' when it comes to campaign donations.

Terry, in a sense you are right. I haven't eaten at a fastfood restaurant in at least 4 years, because my order was always messed up because of language problems on both ends. At times I didn't understand them, or they didn't understand me. The hotels are another issue, like, I would have my don't disturb sign on the door, and they would try coming in the room anyway. I had to complain to the person at the front desk, and they told me they didn't speak English and they would talk to them. I don't know what country they were from, but, I think it was Central America or Mexico. At one time there were raids or boycotts at Hormel Foods, Tyson Foods, and other major corporations, but the corporations turned around to bring in different immigrants. Did you know that Coca-Cola makes the syrup for the softdrink in Ireland? These corporations are offshore for cheap labor and tax reasons, but the prices are still the same or higher in the U.S. I think it is Haliburton that moved their headquarters to Dubai.

A Davis, much like he could not do health care reform by himself, but he managed to get that done, by making it his main agenda for a couple of years. If he wanted to make immigration reform happen he could do more then anyone else to make it happen. He (the president) is one of the most powerful men in the world. While technically you are correct to say he can't do it by himself he knows exactly how to get the ball rolling. He could absolutely tweak border patrol to make it a much more powerful tool like it is in every other country. The border patrol is not the military and he absolutely has to power to change things.

But he does not want to fix Arizona he will be using this to get reelected. Before this law he was going to work very hard to get reelected now it will be much easier unless this dies down quickly. I still think he is absolutely going to loose democratic majority in the Senate and the House this fall, because it is not the majority of the US that wants health care reform but the minority.

Most of the people on this board are leaning more toward 30s to 60 age range. I do not think anyone hear is parroting propaganda, but sharing their views based on their education and experience. You should never assume someone is an idiot because they don't agree with you, it just makes you look bad.

does not sound like you read the articles at all.

Most of the people on this board are leaning more toward 30s to 60 age range. I do not think anyone hear is parroting propaganda, but sharing their views based on their education and experience. You should never assume someone is an idiot because they don't agree with you, it just makes you look bad.

Jenn - Well Said!

Perhaps ADavis will read your statement and understand. By avoiding the question, one can assume she found Obama's statement funny.

i understand that she is missing my point, and apparently, so are you.

A Davis and Native Son, I think you guys are right on the money. Native Son, yes I think that is the point, there's a company called Triple Canopy, a website called corpwatch.org wrote a piece on this company that was going into Peru to recruit mercenaries paying them like $30-40 a day to fight in Iraq and once they were injured they were taken back to Peru without (quote/unquote) proper compensation. Corpwatch does a lot of articles on corporations.

A Davis, you are right again, I think some people have not also looked at the U.S. Chamber of Commerce website. Also, some people have not bothered to check the different type of visas offered, such as the H2- visas, there are different classifications, one would allow Europeans to come in with full benefits of an American worker, the other without the extra protections and benefits.

A Davis, here's a little secret that most people don't know about, Cuba has a medical program for Blacks, Native Americans - this program is a 6 year medical school program FREE, all you need is transportation, they pay for room and board, if you do not speak Spanish they will give you a 12 week crash course, they pay for meals and medical, all that they require is that you provide medical services to low-income areas when you return home. You must be between ages of 18 and 30, no criminal record. This is an excellent opportunity especially since here in the U.S. medical students end up in debt for $200-300k - just google Cuba medical school for American Blacks free, or something along those lines. There's also reviews from former students, reviews were very positive.

this entire immigration "problem" is driven by people who want the under-the-table jobs being offered by major corps in this country (the united states i mean)... it's supply and demand. no need to get serious about tightening the borders for the previous administration as their cronies and friends reaped big benefits... as noted above, it's like "outsourcing IN"... imagine the creative minds that kept this going... so now there is an epidemic flow of people into the country through that sieve... i mean, border... and not just honest people are coming in, they have wolves on their heels, predators and traffickers in misery.

interesting facts about cuba...!

I don't think I'm missing your point but I do believe you are unwilling to consider anyone else may have a point. Open your mind a little. I don't believe anyone should be all democratic or all republican. And if you believe every word out of any President you are in for a world of hurt. I applaud Obama for wanting change but can not stand his party stance that anyone who disagrees with him is a fear or hate monger. It reminds me of McCarthy and the Red Scare.

I don't think I'm missing your point but I do believe you are unwilling to consider anyone else may have a point. Open your mind a little. I don't believe anyone should be all democratic or all republican. And if you believe every word out of any President you are in for a world of hurt. I applaud Obama for wanting change but can not stand his party stance that anyone who disagrees with him is a fear or hate monger. It reminds me of McCarthy and the Red Scare.

all i ask is that the poster of the az gov's ad consider that fact that the tag line about the president doing his job and closing the border was misguided. because the president cannot close the border without the rest of the government, it's called separation of powers.

i repeat, if you want the borders closed, find out more about the immigration reform bill being considered and make your feelings known to your representatives.

I have been talking to people on this board for about a decade. I love what people have to say.

I have found that there are a
wide spectrum of wonderful people who decide to settle in the Virgin Islands.

I am disturbed by the anger and dissent that has been become the focus of this topic.

It seems to me that it is not about illegal immigration. It is about tolerance and intolerance.

I wonder, do these views reflect the narrow viewpoints of the posters on this board, or the viewpoints of recent immigrants to the Virgin Islands. In other words, are the new people moving to the USVI xenophobes and racists or is it just the few 'posters' on this website???

It is clear to me that the VI is a mult-racial society. I have to wonder how satisfied some of these people are with their new home.

Ms. Information, I kinda felt that way also, that it MAY be intolerance or other reasons. So I kindly, or politely tried to say I was going to try to opt out. Since I am still in the states, I recognize what may be the true motivations behind this bill. I mean we just had a rally in Los Angeles with the Neo-Nazis on April 17th called "Take Back the Southwest," but it was also supposed to be an anti-immigrant rally. Believe me, the media like Fox, CNN, LA Times did not report the entire story - for the entire story and pictures, you'd have to google indymedia or la.indymedia. There were counter protesters hurt, claiming they were hit with clubs, that never made the news. The news that barely make news are the people of color, black and latino victims of 'hate crimes,' I'm talking recently. Even here in California, some latinos are scared to leave their homes in fear of deportation. Candidates are running ads night and day about closing the border and stopping immigration.

This was just released Saturday, so, I'm not sure if this is politically motivated or not "Exclusive Video: Gone Bad at the Border" http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local-beat/Gone-Bad-at-the-Border-93193284.html this says that money and sex is being used by smugglers to turn good officers bad.

Now, if you remember, there was two border patrol agents imprisoned a few years ago for shooting an immigrant they said was a drug smuggler. I think their names were Ramos and Campeon.

A Davis, I truly get what you are saying also. This whole ordeal kinda reminds me of the "Columbus Go Home," thing. It had me laughing so hard, "Tea Partiers Punk'd into Supporting Removal of White People from US" http://rawstory.com/2009/2009/11/tea-partiers-punked-white-people/ This was a prankster who appeared at an anti-immigrant tea party protests - they didn't realize he was directing the speech at them, these tea party protesters even chanted along with the prankster yelling "Columbus Go Home." Robert Erickson was there to protest on behalf of the Native Americans, and he used the same speech against them that they use against the illegal immigrants. Also, this is at "Anti-Racist Steal the Show at White Supremacist Tea Party" http://twincities.indymedia.org/2009/nov/anti-racist-steal-show-white-supremacist-tea-party-against-amnesty this one has the transcript of the speech as well as the embedded video that can be downloaded.

I guess this was funny to me, because it makes me think that corporations are sending most of these people out there. I know that Fox used to host some of these Tea Parties, and a radio station here in California supports Tea Party and it used to support Minute Men Border groups.

Oh well, I guess with unemployment so high, people are able to attend different protests, that suits their fancy.