Ariona Law

i hope the corporations that are hiring and exploiting all this cheap labor hear his cry.

A. Davis,

Funny you mentioned you hope the corporations hear this cry. Since GOP doesn't believe in regulating businesses, the corporations are putting their money on GOP because Obama is putting regulations on the banks, and other businesses. GOP believes that the free markets should regulate themselves. Even Rand Paul says that government have no business telling private businesses how to run their businesses. This is what got us into this mess, LOL.

This country is in a free fall, because as I have been saying all along, I blame the corporations. I kept saying that because, little do people know, we are in fact on track to be a country like Mexico. Business own almost all of the GDP, and a small government. This is what free markets and capitalism have brought us. Now that the corporations have the upper hand, meaning our government is at the mercy of these big corporations they are dictating what they will or won't do. And now that they are multinational corporations, they can leave the U.S. anytime they want, like GM, they took taxpayer dollars and continued on as usual with their Mexico and China plants, their plants in Canada faired better than ours. They said that our medical system costs them too much money, and they don't want to pay for Americans healthcare. Then you have the healthcare industry fighting back and using slick ways to get the people out to protest against a national healthcare system. It is a no-win situation for the Americans that don't understand the entire issue. The businesses are arguing that they don't want to pay the high wages and also pay for medical benefits and retirement benefits. The GOP argues that the government shouldn't have to pay social security, even though people are paying taxes for social security, and then you have the financial and investment industry that have wiped people out of their retirement savings. To top it off, a lot of scam artists are out there now preying on people that are looking for safe investments.

Big Business is owned by the Stockholders (who would that be)?Social Security is not a Tax! Investor greed got us where we are in the financial markets. Pensions funds and High income people lost. Most community colleges give a course in economics.

For the people mocking California as looking like a third world country, it was Tom Tancredo, the Italian that said Florida looks like a third world country, referring to the Cuban areas of Florida. It is Tom Tancredo that is scheduled to appear at a rally in Arizona that is supposed to have a lot of skinheads in attendance on June 5th. It was Arnold Schwarzenegger, the Austrian, that said California was looking like Mexico.

How about we just closed the border entirely, and stop everyone from coming in, legal or illegal, skilled or unskilled.

This whole ordeal is showing the entire world a face of Americans that won't soon be forgotten. There are nasty comments about Americans as well as a few good comments relating to this issue. But the fact remains, since businesses is part of the free market, they don't have to bring any jobs back to the U.S. even though they have been able to skip out on taxes because of 'tax breaks and tax subsidies.'

The hospitals that have served 'illegal immigrants,' I don't think any hospital should refuse treatment to anyone. But, no mention of the illegal immigrants hurt and killed on the job. Because businesses have not had regulations, there have been a lot of illegal immigrants seriously injured on the job, from lost fingers, limbs, eyes, and burns, so again, let's look at the entire issue, because this is also a reason for some of the hospital visits. How about some of the illegal immigrants that have been victims of robbery since they are vulnerable, or the illegal immigrants that are victims of assault and hate crimes by blacks and whites. I would think they need medical care. And to compare us with Mexico, that people don't have the same rights, well yeah, there are a lot of other countries that you wouldn't have the same rights.

Aha, now I see why Fox News is out there, and I mean way out there.

Bet most people didn't know that the Fox News, News Corp, the 2nd biggest shareholder is Saudi Prince Alwaleed bin Talal. He is the biggest shareholder, only second to the Murdoch family. LOL! LOL! ROTFLMAO! LOL! That's why some people make me think of them as Talibanangelicals.

Lizard, nice shot.

However, all corporations are not public, meaning you can't buy shares of common or preferred, or corporate bonds. Some are privately held, meaning, they are held and owned by the owners, remember Levi Strauss, for the longest time they didn't have shareholders, don't know if you can buy shares now, but they didn't have to account to shareholders, board of directors and so on. And yes, I know about IPO's, initial public offerings. Companies that sell shares usually do this as a way to raise money, and as a way to reduce their own personal liability. And yes, I am aware that with bonds, the company is in debt to you, stocks you suffer if the company loses because you are considered having ownership, that is why bondholders are paid before shareholders. BTW, not only did I take an Macroeconomics, I also took Microeconomics, in addition to having a series 7 license years ago.

don't think that a hospital should refuse emergency care for something that is truly an emergency. However they are using the ER for flu, colds, births, etc. Things that most responsible people go to a doctor for. Treat them yes, but not for free. Send the ones that are not critical away to a doctor or clinic.

anjell~ you insist on getting me wrong. I am all for immigration: legal immigration (read my earlier posts) but right is right and wrong is wrong. I don't believe in situation ethics nor in political "correctness" I believe America is unique and the Mexican invasion is working to destroy all my ancestors worked so hard to build. I am all for helping those who came here illegally (or quasi-legally by having their babies in our ERs) to do the right thing. If you respect my country, and can add to the culture, you are welcome. If you disrespect my country, its laws, its culture, then stay home. If you want to find work, do so in Mexico. If you want to soak me dry by abusing the system and bloating my schools, my ERs and turning my neighborhood into a drug/people smuggling, graffiti emblazoned trash heap, then stay home. If you want to come here, work hard, learn English, or at least help your kids to, and build a life, then for God's sake, do it the honest, upright way.

Despite what you want to think, this really is not about racial profiling another knee-jerk politically correct epithet) but rather in honor and doing what is right. If you come in my front door, I will offer you food, and you are my guest. If you sneak in my back door, you are a thief and likely to be shot.

No Shot intended, However what banks and financial institutions had to be bailed out, Oh and don't defend yourself with a series 7 license. Look at the cause and effect on the economy by the stock holder companies.

Antiqueone,

I am in no way trying to prove you wrong. Truly, I am sorry if it seems that way. As I said earlier, not to take any of my comments personally. I am just trying to open up the entire picture, for all of us to think outside the box.

I truly understand that some people are saying they are for 'legal immigration.' At the same time, I keep trying to point out that the corporations is behind all of this, and some small businesses as well. Now lets say, you decide to go to Italy illegally, now we know there are lots of illegal immigrants from the Middle East, as well as from the African continent there. How would you feel if Italy decides to target the Americans and not the others?

Now, let's look at the other part of this argument, small construction companies were doing very well before the wave of illegal immigrants came in, remember that? Now, because the bigger construction companies were hiring illegal immigrants at cheaper costs and materials, the smaller business was put out of business because the costs were too great for workers' compensation insurance, health care costs, union pay wages. I remember how people were complaining that KB Homes was hiring all illegal immigrants to build their homes. The smaller construction business used really good materials, like drywall, where the bigger corporations were said to have used the drywall that made people sick and now have to be replaced.

All I am saying is we are targeting only the illegal immigrants from Latin American countries, and that is not going to bring the jobs back. As I said earlier, we are being bought up by people who have money, for instance, did you also know that the same Saudi Arabian prince, Alwaleed bin Talal is also the biggest shareholder of Citibank? We, the taxpayers bailed out Citibank, and now we can't get loans. Again, I am stressing look at the entire picture, which we should, because didn't some people from the Middle East say they were going to take over the world? Remember they tried to buy the ports? Now, with this in mind, regardless of what country they are from, whether it's China, UK, Cuba, or wherever, do you think any of these people are going to follow American laws or values, how about working conditions and pay issues. If they own the companies they can do whatever they want, they can leave if they want. The person with the most power wins, the person with the most toys wins. Other countries say all the time how Americans only understand 'money.'

I am suggesting that people, engage with each other and bring back businesses, if creative start new businesses, and follow the lead of Steve Jobs, Bill Gates and others, and stop waiting on businesses to bring back jobs. Because right now, this country is in a power struggle, we owe China so much money, people from other countries are buying are industries, American companies are moving out of the country for cheap labor, so, here's challenge to all, use your skills to bring back business in America, stop spending so much money to the non-profits, organizations that are making promises they can't keep, stop going to these protests that are corporate-sponsored that's only looking out for their own interests, and most of all, be true to whoever offer to help get your business going and not scam unsuspecting investors out of money that have put their trust in you.

With that, I will bow out of this for awhile. I will check comments, but, unless they are addressed to me, I will just observe. As the singer Nelli says, "it's getting hot in here."

Lizard, nice second shot.

You said that the colleges offer economic classes, and I responded.

Now, not only did the banks receive a bailout, but so did the automakers. Here's a very good article to read about how 'Corporate America' is accused of a shell game against the America public, google "Coca-Cola, Oracle, Intel use Cayman Islands to Avoid U.S. Taxes." Here it will talk about how these corporations threatened to default on health benefits and retirement obligations if they couldn't get a tax rate of 5%. Also, look at B of A, they have a building in the Cayman Islands that no one can do business at.

And to fully answer your question with a question, who was the president when Lincoln Savings failed, was this president a Democrat or Republican? This bank failure caused a ripple effect with other banks failing. Here again, the taxpayers bailed out the 'banks.'

Out.

Simple facts are not shots. Just facts.

Lizard,

You are making this conversation more complicated for others to understand. I understand what you are trying to say, for arguments sake, social security is a deduction from workers paychecks, a deduction from wages, because some workers based on classification or profession, some do not contribute to the social security system. So, for the sake of this, we will consider it a tax, because regardless, it is contributed to by taxpayers.

And to say investors greed, okay, well have you heard of charge-backs. This is when a person in the financial industry sell a product, mutual fund or insurance and the seller (advisor/rep) gets a commission, well, when you stop the payments to this or discontinue paying for this product, the seller gets a charge-back. Meaning, because this product is no more, he has to pay back to company for the commission he would have received if the buyer continued to pay for the product.

Ever heard of Nick Leeson, this was the rogue trader who brought down a bank about 15 years ago, Barings Bank, a bank that was over 200 years old. Remember when Orange County California had to file bankruptcy for dealing with derivatives, so this is not the first time in history that we are experiencing this.

So to say that this is investor greed, how do you know it is not the worker who is trying to make big commissions? And how about the 'pay-to-play' scandals, where companies including public pensions receive so-called kick-backs, or bribes in the process?

I can answer just about any question dealing with the financial industry, however, it you have questions in regards to this specifically, send me a PM or start a new thread on this, otherwise, let's not lose the people following this thread, because again, I am familiar with RSO's (restricted stock options), CDS (credit default swaps), LEAPS, bonds - corporate, municipal, and anything else.

When you first open these it takes a second for the news video to pop up. The first video has a kind of sound problem, but I closed it and opened it again and it worked fine.

According to the Border Patrol the public is being mislead as to WHO is coming into the US from Mexico. This IS THE TRUTH. as reported by WSBTV in Atlanta.

Video 1
>rel=nofollow target="_blank"> http://www.wsbtv.com/video/23438021/index.html

Video 2
>rel=nofollow target="_blank"> http://www.wsbtv.com/video/23438712/index.html
>>
>> If we don't get this message out to the people, we are
>dead ducks...and soon!
>> PLEASE send to people before the video expires.

Terry, great job.

Now you see what I trying to point out. In some of these underdeveloped countries like Honduras, Belize, Panama, Dominican Republic, Commonwealth of Dominica, and so on, they have pensionada programs, and citizenship programs. Meaning, if you receive a certain amount of income every month, deposit a certain amount in one of their banks, purchase property for a certain amount, or even pay a certain amount, you can get either residency or citizenship - some people refer to this a 'second passport.' With this, some can get a tourist visa to come to the U.S. and never go back.

Then with, as I mentioned earlier, employers that bring people in from their own countries. This could be done under the famous, "jobs Americans won't do," through the guest worker program using a worker's visa. Some probably don't go back.

There's also the visas to go to school here. Some probably don't go back.

Then there are also marriages, meaning some of the people that come here go back to their own countries to find a wife, because they say, "American women are too loose," or whatever derogatory terms they use against us, or because their families will not accept an American woman or man in their families for cultural or religious reasons, or some other reason. So, not only do some Muslims do this, but also some men and women from India, and other countries. With this, there are SOME (not all) that will marry an American for a green card. I'm hearing that this is something happening with the Moroccans right now, seeking a marriage only for the green card.

There are reports of immigration attorneys that have been suspected of, or charged with doing shady things to get people citizenship.

Then lastly, there's also Peace Arch Park in Canada, some try to come in through there.

Social Security is not a tax, it's based on actual income and credited to the individuals account. Not all people pay the same amount or collect the same amount, What is so confusing about the facts. If you don't think investor greed had anything to do with this recession. I have a bridge to sell you! This post is a shot. Get off your misinformation soap box and take a breath.

We need to be careful what we wish for.

If we stopped relying on cheap labor (Mexico), cheap goods (China), and cheap oil (Middle East/Venezuela), and the $7 Billion dollars a year which illegals pay into Social Security ( http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/05/business/05immigration.html ...not to mention the other taxes they pay), -economically we'd be in a fine pickle.

And...if we send "them" back ...who's next?

There was a time in this country where the "natives" felt this way about:

a. The white people (if you were a "real" Native American)
b. The Scotch-Irish
c. The Africans
d. The Italians
e. The Jews
f. The Japanese
g. Those opposed to the Viet Nam war (remember "our country - love it or leave it"?)

Neil,
If we stop prosecuting law breakers, who's next?
a. Buglers?
b. Muggers?
c. Thieves?
d. Bank Robbers?
e. White collars criminals?
f. Murderers?

Illegal entry into American is usually only their first crime.

Illegal entry into American is usually only their first crime.

Citations please? Preferably from a neutral source.

This is just the first one that I pulled up.
Of course you will say it is not neutral because it takes a side that you don't like. If you don't like this one, Google percent of crimes committed by illegals. There are lots of examples.

Eric Rasmusen’s Weblog
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Illegal Immigrants Cause 21% of Crime

May 1, 2008: This post is obsolete and wrong in places. For something better, go to:
http://rasmusen.org/t/2008/04/illegal-immigrants-cause-21-of-crime.html

I just ran the numbers to see how much crime is caused by illegal immigrants. I conclude that they cause about 21% of it, a crime rate 6 time that of legal residents, meaning that illegal immigrants cause 3,360 murders, 19,950 rapes, 450,000 burglaries, and 1.45 million serious thefts, besides other categories of crimes.

Here’s my methodology, since this kind of data, despite its obvious importance, isn’t available readily from the government, no doubt as part of the general policy of nonenforcement of immigration laws. My source notes are at the end of this post.

In 2005 there were 10.5 million illegal aliens, according to the government, including about 264,000 in jail and prison for non-immigration crimes. That’s an incarceration rate of 2.5%.

The total population was 296,639,000, including 1,496,000 in jail and prison, for an incarceration rate of 0.50%. Subtracting out illegals, the non-illegal population is then 286,139,000, with 1,235,000 in jail and prison, for an incarceration rate of 0.43%.

21.4% of inmates are thus illegal, and I assume that illegal immigrant criminals are caught and incarcerated at the same rate as domestic ones, and that no criminals are illegal immigrants except those identified in my data source, which is the number of prisoners who have committed at least two misdemeanors that state and local government find out are illegal and ask the federal government for reimbursement for. There are probably more; I don’t know how many.

Then I just multiply the amount of different categories of crimes by 21% to get the number committed by illegal immigrants.

Illegal Alien Invasion Deadlier Than Iraq by Mac Johnson did the calculations a very different way and came up with an estimate of 1,480 murders by year by illegal immigrants. I thought his method (based on crime rates in Mexico, etc.) would be an overestimate, but I see it is less than half of my estimate based on prison records.

The numbers paint a completely different story from the one commonly see in the press under headlines such as “The Myth of Immigrant Criminality” ( “The Myth of Immigrant Criminality,” Harvard Magazine (September-October, 2006) pp. 15-16, discussing Prof. Sampson’s work. See also an article on work by Ruben Rumbaut and Walter Ewing). The reason is simple: the much-cited studies are about legal immigrants, not illegal immigrants. Legal immigrants are by definition unusually law-abiding, and include Indian doctors, Korean grocers, and Mexican grandmothers who are unlikely to be committing many murders and rapes.

Statistical Abstract: crimes: 16 95 401 855 10,328 2,143 6,948 1,237. Multiply each by .21 to get 3,360 fewer murders, 19,950 fewer rapes, 450,000 fewer burglaries, and 1.45 million fewer serious thefts.

Statistical Abstract: 1,496,000 total in prison in 2004.

Statisical Abstract: population in 2005: 296,639,000

GAO report number GAO-05-337R entitled ‘Information on Criminal Aliens Incarcerated in Federal and State Prisons and Local Jails’ which was released on May 9, 2005:

* Criminal aliens incarcerated increased from about 42,000 at year-end 2001 to about 49,000 at year-end 2004. [federal prisons only]

* Fiscal year 2002-SCAAP reimbursed all 50 states for incarcerating about 77,000 criminal aliens.

* Fiscal year 2002-SCAAP reimbursed 752 local jurisdictions for incarcerating about 138,000 criminal aliens.

* SCAAP is a Department of Justice (DOJ), Bureau of Justice Assistance (BJA), program that partially reimburses state and local jurisdictions annually for the cost of incarcerating some but not all criminal aliens illegally in the country. Not all jurisdictions submit for SCAAP reimbursement.

* State and local jurisdictions voluntarily submit data annually on inmates they suspect to be criminal aliens for possible reimbursement. The program reimburses these jurisdictions for criminal aliens who:

-were convicted of a felony or two misdemeanors and incarcerated for a minimum of 4 days and -entered the U.S. without inspection, or were in immigration removal proceedings at the time they were taken into custody; or were admitted as a nonimmigrant and failed to maintain nonimmigrant status.[NOTE 1]

Wikipedia says

The Office of Immigration Statistics in the Department of Homeland Security estimates based on U.S. Census that 10.5 million illegal aliens were living in the United States in May 2005 and that the number grew at a national average of 408,000 a year

This entry was posted on Friday, June 29th, 2007 at 2:59 pm and is filed under Thoughts-New. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site.
16 Responses to “Illegal Immigrants Cause 21% of Crime”

1. JAMES DRISCOLL Says:
June 30th, 2007 at 11:27 am

The big challenge is to get information like this on the public radar screen. Feinstein and Kerry want to censor talk radio because it is one sided, they say. No one mentions the one-sidedness of our leading papers, NYT, WSJ, Washpost, LATimes etc, who are monolithic in support or illegal immigrants and never publish the other side. You might want to check my op ed in the SF Chronicle:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/chronicle/archive/2007/06/28/EDG6QQ4T6P1.DTL
2. Robert Says:
July 2nd, 2007 at 8:17 am

Wouldn’t this statistic be an overestimate if the illegal immigrants are in jail for being what they are, illegal immigrants? Also, if they want to keep a low profile, commiting crimes isn’t a good way to do it.
3. admin Says:
July 2nd, 2007 at 8:45 am

Immigration offenses are federal, and most of the prisoners are state. Also, I believe even the figure for federal prisons excludes immigration offenses– the GAO report was on general criminality of illegal immigrants. I’m not even sure anyone goes to prison for immigration violations— they can be deported, and the Administration is not eager to punish immigration offenses.
4. Dave Says:
July 5th, 2007 at 11:38 am

Criminal Alien and Illegal Alien are not the same.
5. Charles Says:
July 6th, 2007 at 12:07 pm

Dave, what an insightful and helpful observation. Boy that really helps to clarify the empirical facts about illegal aliens and their relative contribution to crime in the US! (not)

Charles
6. Dave Says:
July 6th, 2007 at 6:31 pm

I guess hand holding is necessary.

In calculating the percent of crime committed by illegal aliens, Rasmussen used the figure for “criminal aliens” which includes all aliens who are criminals including those that are in the country legally. His estimate therefore is overestimated
7. Sam Says:
July 9th, 2007 at 10:08 pm

Soooo…

You start out by saying that

Total prison population: 1,496,000
Total illegal imigrants in prison: 264,000

Then you try an calculate the percentage of illegals in prison. How do we calculate the percentage of illegals in prison given the two numbers above? Hmmm… tough one.

We could start doing “new” math and work out a whole bunch of percentages based on total number of imigrants and US population and hair color and relative hand-to-face ratios.

Or…. we could ask a local fifth-grader:

264,000 out of 1,496,000 is 17.6%.

—-

THEN, you say that if 21% of prisoners are illegal immigrants (actually 17%, and actully even less than that, if you read below), THEREFORE 21% of rapists and murderers are illegal immigrants. Great assumption! Let’s just throw that in there and hope no one questions that assumption!

If 10% of all criminal were juveniles, would it follow that 10% of all embezzelment was caused by juveniles?

—-

Finlly, HOW again did you calculate the total number of illegals in prison in 2005?

It seems to me that you took the total number of illegals in prison in 2002, then ADDED that to the total number of illegals in prison in 2004. Does that make any sense at all?

To find the numbers for 2006, should we add the total number in prison in 2003 to the total number in prison in 2005???
8. Andrew Says:
August 17th, 2007 at 3:42 pm

Assuming that illegals consitute 20 million out of a total U.S. population of 300 million, they are less than 6.7% of the total population. If they constitute 17.6% of the prison population, that means that they are 2.6 times more likely (17.6 / 6.7) to be incarcerated than the average person. If there are actually only 12 million illegals (4% of U.S. population), then they are 4.4 times more likely to be in jail. In either case, that reflects a high crime rate, not a low one. There may be certain other demographic groups with even higher crime rates, but that hardly supports proponents of open borders. Note that working “off the books” is also a crime. The victims are those who work legally and must pay higher taxes, and also those who have to compete in the labor market against those who, off the books, cost much less to employ.
9. Monica Says:
November 1st, 2007 at 11:19 pm

I agree with Sam above that your calculations and assumptions are very biased and skewed. And where are you getting your numbers? Shere are you getting the number that 264,000 are incarcerated illegal immigrants? I traced your statistics to the US Census Bureau, and according to table 336, only 108,300 inmates were of Hispanic origin in 2004. Granted this is excluding some facilities, but the total number of inmates they include is 713,990. Thus it only accounts for half the number (1,496,000) you post. Assuming porportions of race are held constant, this would still only put total Hispanic incarcerations around 224,400. Since this is still an assumption, we could say that this number might plausibly be slightly higher (I couldn’t find total numbers on the website you cite). However, your calculations mean that all if not the majority of Hispanics incarcerated would be illegal immigrants (this based on the fact that the majority of illegal immigrants are Hispanic). Dude, you need to cite your sources more clearly and recalculate your calculations…something is really off.
10. admin Says:
November 2nd, 2007 at 3:08 am

I appreciate the comments that go into the numbers, but they should not so casually charge me with bad faith. Notice that I *do* cite my sources. I don’t have time to check over everything, so I accept that maybe I have made mistakes, but they are not in bad faith. Please do go ahead and check everything, including the arithmetic.

I did take a look and see that even in the post, without going to the original sources, Monica should have been able to see that the figure of 264,000 criminal aliens comes from the GAO report that I quote at length– not from some estimate of the number of Hispanics in prison. Maybe the GAO report is wrong, maybe the Hispanics data is– I don’t know.
11. alaina Says:
April 1st, 2008 at 11:01 am

i loved it it was freakin awesome!
12. Gabe Says:
May 21st, 2008 at 10:06 pm

Um, dude, criminal aliens are not all criminal ILLEGAL aliens. They estimate that 66% of the incarcerated criminal aliens are actually illegal immigrants. So your numbers are inflated by 33%.
13. Eric Rasmusen Says:
January 30th, 2009 at 9:55 am

I just deleted a comment for lack of email address and for obscenity. I see no reason to post impolite comments, and lack of an email address will reduce your probability of being posted too.
14. Flu-Bird Says:
March 21st, 2009 at 2:32 am

And last year TIME printed a article which said we should allow illegal imagrnts to come to america and hold jobs COMMING FROM ONE OF OUR NATIONS MOST LEFT-WING NEWS RAGS WELL ALL I CAN SAY ITS asolutly positivly NO SPECIALY ANYTHINGS TO ILLEGAL ALIENS
15. H.Rangel Says:
June 18th, 2009 at 8:59 pm

Excuse me? and this information comes from ?
Because in College, (CSUN )
we were told that not 5% of the illegal immigrants do not , closely, nearly reach the number of crime commited by actual legal residents.
Get your information right then post your stuff on the internet , THANK YOU!
16. Izquierdista Says:
June 30th, 2009 at 3:14 am

All this talk by you americans about illegal this illegal that…but refresh my memory…how did you pilgrims(americans) get to this civilized land?? 🙂

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Terry, that rambling text you pasted is pretty hard to follow. Is that one paste or twenty? Do you have something more concise and focused?

Of course you will say it is not neutral because it takes a side that you don't like.

Of course I would say that. Anything that takes a side is not neutral. Show me something neutral, like government stats, a mainstream media report, or a scholarly study.

If you don't like this one, Google percent of crimes committed by illegals. There are lots of examples.

I leave it to you to defend your statement that illegals are committing a lot of violent crimes. Maybe they are, but you'll have to convince me. I'm not going to do your research on this one.

This is just the first one that I pulled up.
Of course you will say it is not neutral because it takes a side that you don't like. If you don't like this one, Google percent of crimes committed by illegals. There are lots of examples.

Eric Rasmusen’s Weblog
« A Lifeboat Hypothetical
Fighting Spam »
Illegal Immigrants Cause 21% of Crime

May 1, 2008: This post is obsolete and wrong in places. For something better, go to:
http://rasmusen.org/t/2008/04/illegal-immigrants-cause-21-of-crime.html

.........
-------
!!!!!!!!!

First off Terry, let me speak on behalf of nearly everyone here when I gently say, "PLEASE DON"T POST LONG POSTS LIKE THIS.... especially when you're just copying and pasting from some guy's long blog."

It's spam, and is unnecessary. Next time, just quote a short section and post a link.

------

Second... the guy's own blog states right at the top that, "My numbers were indeed way off." " ...even corrected, my estimates are still just a weblog estimate, not up to the standards for first draft for an academic working paper, though that doesn't mean they aren't the best available (somebody *should* do a serious study of this)."

He now estimates 6% and not 21%.

So much for that.

--------

Third... To the point you were trying to make.....

According to the New Mexico Independent.

"...FBI and U.S. Department of Justice data show that Arizona’s violent crime rate is lower than the U.S. average and has been declining more rapidly than the U.S. average, The Independent found.

Despite a growing population, violent crime rates dropped sharply in Arizona between 2002 and 2008, the latest year for which complete federal crime data are available online.

That 19.5 percent decline was much more pronounced than the U.S. average during the same time period, The Independent found."

http://newmexicoindependent.com/53176/crime-immigration-connection-unclear-justice-dept-statistics-suggest

This argument is so bizarre to me. Arizona passed a law that allows police officers to verify citizenship after someone has committed a crime. What in the world is wrong with that. If we (as American Citizens) went to any other country the police have the right to do this at any time. Not just when we commit a crime. As American citizens in foreign countries we MUST carry documentation with us at all times that prove we have the right to be there or at least identify ourselves.

So those of you arguing against this Arizona law are you also mad we have to carry documentation in foreign countries??

And as for those who believe profiling is racist, its not about the skin color when it comes to figuring out if someone is from a different country. Think about it. Can you tell who is a Danish or European tourist and who is an Stateside tourist in the usvi? I know 90% of the time I can. It's about the way people have their hair cut the way they dress, etc... Any border patrol agent worth his salt can spot an illegal from a legal Mexican American citizen and when they are wrong, that is why you carry documentation. Even as US citizens in the US we all carry our DL or ID cards to identify ourselves. I've been asked before by border patrol to prove my citizenship and never took it as an insult, any more then I would take tsa or customs as an insult for verifying my identity.

And this was not the first Mexican President to slam the US on US soil. Just about every president has stood by while one has made a speech like this. Although this is the first time I can remember it being done in the house.

It is not hard to enter the country the right way, its a little time consuming but not hard to get the right visa. If you come in illegally you are a criminal. And as an illegal criminal you are treated much much better on US soil then an you would be treated in Most countries.

It is not hard to enter the country the right way, its a little time consuming but not hard to get the right visa.

If that were true, illegals would do that. They would just buy a round trip plane ticket or bus ticket and come in on a tourist visa, and then forget to leave after the visa expired. The US will not issue tourist visas to most people from certain countries because we fear they will just come and stay here. Instead, illegals pay coyotes many times that amount to smuggle them in, and they risk their lives being smuggled in harsh conditions.

It is also hard to get a permanent residence visa (green card). One way is by lottery. From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permanent_residence_(United_States) : "Each year, around 50,000 immigrant visas are made available through the Diversity Visa (DV) program, also known as the Green Card Lottery to people who were born in countries with low rates of immigration to the United States...Over 6.4 million applications for the 2008 Diversity Visa Lottery were submitted." So the odds of winning the visa lottery are very low.

The most comon way to get a green card is by having a parent, spouse or child already in the US legally, or by marrying a legal resident. However, that option is not available to most people who want to immigrate to the US. Hence, there is a lot of border-jumping.

It ABSOLUTELY is true. Go to the US website that will get you started http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis (US Citizenship and Immigration Services). This is the customer service branch of Immigration. They will absolutely help you and tell you what to do. It is a govt agency so nothing moves fast, remember I didn't say its was quick, it may take a couple of years but you can definitely get one. It won't even take a year AS LONG as you are not a criminal.

Let me ask you this have you been to Mexico? Have you ever gone to the real town and citites that aren't tourist traps? There are an incredible amount of poor people with VERY little education. So the criminals take advantage of these people buy charging them thousands of dollars instead of them just getting on the internet and starting the process. Theres a whole branch of Scum of the earth attorneys on the US side that take advantage of illegals as well charging them thousands for what they can get for FREE by just talking to the US Citizenship and Immigration Services.

I put zero trust in anything wikipedia has to say, no fact checks and anyone can contribute. Get the info from the real source.