Anyone recomend a good buyers agent on STX?

Kim Lucas

Cell Phone - (340) 626-3758
eFax (864) 751-4242
email: kim@email.vi
www.BuyerAgentStCroix.com
www.alist.vi
www.retireinthevi.com
www.activerain.com/blogs/kimlucas

I agree -- Kim Lucas. She did a great job for us.

Okay, thanks. I'll shoot her a message.

My understanding is there aren't any Buyers Agents in the VI -- IE, people who legally represent the buyer's interests vs. the seller. Is this wrong? It'd make my eventual house shopping attitude shift if this impression is wrong :).

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Kim works for an agency that also takes listings so I do not believe she is a true Buyers Agent; she is a Realtor like most all others here.

Finding this discussion interesting as my wife is a real estate broker here in NYC, and the topic of agency comes up often. Most people don't fully understand how real estate agency works, and that the commission paid by seller, renter, or landlord is usually split between cooperating brokers unless it is a "direct deal"-meaning there is only one broker involved. In NYC we have buyer's agents, seller's agents, and dual agents (representing both buyer and seller), and after a quick search on google found that you do too in the USVI. I found a 5 year old thread on this board started by "Lou" titled "Opinions on real estate buyer's agents" in which buyer's agent Chuck Ulrich eventually steps up and provides a thorough explanation about how the whole agency thing works. Read on.

Chuck Ulrich
Re: Opinions on real estate buyer's agents
December 12, 2005 07:35AM
I was told by someone that my name was being used in this thread, so I thought I would join the party.

First of all I have to say that I am not a fan of these on-line forums. They seem good on the surface, but are filled with self-serving misinformation that people take as good advice. There are a lot of things being said here that are just dead wrong, and I would like correct them. If you need information on how buyer agency works you should ask a buyer agent.

A little background.
I was the first Exclusive Buyer Agent in the U.S. Virgin Islands (I was not the first buyer agent). I did a lot of research on buyer agency, developed Buyer Agent St. Croix as well as Buyer Agent VI, while working with an inactive broker Gotts and Associates. I now have my own brokerage Buyer Agent St. Croix.

dntw8up SAID
""Earlier this year I was discussing the issue of buyer's agency with a principal of a real estate firm on STT and I was informed that unlike the mainland, in the USVI all agents still have a primary fiduciary responsibility to the seller. All USVI real estate agents will assist buyers, but they represent the sellers i.e. they are paid a commission by the sellers and have a fiduciary responsibility to the sellers."”
dntw8up, You were misinformed. The buyer agent option is available here. All agents do not have a fiduciary responsibility to the seller. Who pays their commission has nothing to do with it.

dntw8up SAID
“"An agent cannot have a fiduciary responsibility to both a buyer and a seller."”
Sure they can, but they will be acting as a dual agent. A dual agent represents both the buyer and seller. If an agent represents a buyer who wishes to show a listing held by the agent or the agents firm they are acting as a dual agent, and must disclose this to both the buyer and seller. This is not a good practice as it is similar to a husband and wife using the same divorce attorney.

dntw8up SAID
“"buyer's agent" i.e. has a fiduciary responsibility to the buyer rather than the seller. This duty obligates a real estate agent to act at all times solely in the best interests of whomever he or she represents to the exclusion of all other interests, including the broker's own self-interest!"”
Correct, and this is where not listing properties comes in. The difference between an exclusive buyer agent and a buyer agent is that the Exclusive Buyer Agent does not list property and the Buyer Agent does. Assume you are a buyer agent and are showing two $500,000 properties. One you listed and one you didn't. If you sell the one you listed you get a $30,000 commission and if you sell the other you get a $15,000. Which one would you want to sell? Exactly. And even if you can forget about the extra $15,000, you are obligated to the seller to try your best to sell their property. But that property might not be the best property for the buyer, therefore It is a conflict of interest.

Carl Gotts SAID
“"Our real estate agency Gotts & Associates, Buyers Agent VI is the only Exclusive Buyers Agent in the US Virgin Islands and the only local member of NAEBA, the National Association of Exclusive Buyers Agents, www.naeba.org."”
Wrong on both of those Carl. I am an Exclusive Buyers Agent and a member of the National Association of Exclusive Buyer Agents.

Jane SAID
"”Roland Groder, one of the owners of REMAX St Croix , is THE ONLY Nationally Accredited Buyer Representative (ABR) licensed on St Croix. He was accredited by the National Association of Realtors in 2000 and is the only Realtor on St Croix who can sign a contract to work for and on behalf of a buyer."”
Jane??? What is a nice girl like you doing in a place like this. You need to talk to Roland or Joe. You do not need a designation to be a buyer agent and Roland is not the only agent who can sign a contract to work on behalf of a buyer. Where did you come up with that?

Alexandra Marshall SAID
""Typically, the agent working with the buyer has the buyer's best interests in mind.......""
Why wouldn't a buyer working with an agent ALWAYS want to have their best interest in mind?

Alexandra Marshall SAID
""If you find a property your first day out that you absolutely love, go ahead and put in an offer. Most purchase and sale agreements allow time to review your selection and back out of a contract if there turns out to be a problem with it. You can continue to see other properties available and if something better shows up, you can usually change your selection.""
This seems a little unfair to the seller. Isn't that who you, as a listing agent, represent? What happened to good faith?

Alexandra Marshall SAID
""All agents are officially representing the seller if the seller is paying the agents on both sides......
However... due to the seller's listing agreement with the listing agent, the seller will still pay the full commission, even if it all goes to the listing agent and none to the selling agent (buyer's agent). That means there isn't any additional bargaining room to bring down the price so that the buyer would be better off paying his agent's commission on top of the purchase price.""
Who is paying whom has nothing to do with who you are representing. I have never had (to my knowledge) a transaction I was involved in where the listing agent was paid the full commission. Sellers are not stupid. They are not going to want to pay a full commission to a listing agent if a buyer agent brings them a contract (although you are correct in saying that the listing agent has a right to). Sellers don't care who brings an offer, they want to sell their house. But some listing agents would prefer not to have buyer agents around, and seem to forget that it is not about them, it is about the buyer and seller. If the listing agent wants to double dip, the market would soon come to bear on this practice. I get paid a commission from the transaction on behalf of the buyer. The Buyer could reduce the amount offered and pay a commission directly, but it is the same net to the Seller. The transaction happens all at once. It is not like the seller gets paid and the agent goes to his house and picks up a check a couple of days later. Who is actually paying this commission is debatable. Both commissions usually come off the sellers side of the closing statement, but the buyer is the only one who brings any money to the table. And I think I could make a good case for the buyer being the one who pays the listing agents commission.

Alexandra Marshall SAID
""Chuck Ulrich advertises as a buyer's agent, but he does not sign contracts with buyers to represent them solely and does not charge the buyers a fee/commission. He is paid by the seller as are all the other agents. In a conversation I had with Mr. Ulrich the week he left Mr. Gott's company, he told me that he did not sign contracts with buyers he worked with to act as their exclusive agent and that he took his fee from the seller as other agents do... yet considered himself to be, and advertised as, a buyer's agent"".
I do not just advertise as a buyer agent, I am one. One way you can tell who is and who isn't is to ask the agent how many properties they helped buyers find while looking out exclusively for their interests. I helped buyers find over 20 properties this year, and I will give (with their permission) the contact information of all of them to anyone who is interested in finding how they felt about the service.
I never told you that I did not sign contracts with buyers. But to be a buyer agent, you do not have to sign a contract with a buyer. You have to give the buyer your loyalty and honesty, and disclose this representation to both the buyer and seller. By the way, A listing agent also has an obligation to disclose to a buyer that they represent the seller, and provide written confirmation of that disclosure to the buyer not later than execution of a purchase agreement. How often is that done around here?
I do not take the sub-agent commission. I do typically take what is offered (the percentage) as the sub agent commission. As a buyer agent you cannot ask for the sub-agent commission as it will be interfering with the listing agents listing. But how I get paid and do my contracts and agreements does not involve you and I suggest you take a look at the Code of Ethics (specifically Article 15).

In developing exclusive buyer agency here, I have found that there are lots of good agents and agencies on St. Croix. As a buyer agent you get to see who is working for the seller and transaction, and who is not. And just because an agent is working for the seller, it doesn't mean that they won't treat a buyer fairly. In most cases they will simply want to, and they are also obligated to do so. It is a question of who they owe their loyalty and fiduciary duty to. Does it matter? I have had transactions where it didn't matter, and transactions where it mattered a lot. And most transactions fell somewhere in between.

Chuck Ulrich
Buyer Agent St. Croix

The VI is a Seller Agency market meaning that most agents owe fiduciary duties to their Client - the Seller. Buyers are their Customers and are due honesty and disclosure.

Dual Agency, where a Realtor represents both the Buyer and the Seller, is not legal in the VI.

Designated Agency, where a real estate company designates one agent to represent the Buyer and another agent to represent the Seller, is not legal in the VI because that puts the broker in a dual agency position.

A Buyers Agent can not show you their own company's listings because that places the broker in a dual agency position.

There are no Agency Disclosure requirements in the VI. Agency Disclosure is often written into the contract at the back end of the process.

Hi,
This is Kim Lucas - and thanks to all those of you who recommended me! I am a true buyer's agent - and yes we do take listings - but we DO NOT REPRESENT SELLERS! We do things very differently - please go to our website to see ....www.alist.vi.

I'm sorry but if you are payed by the seller I'm not buying that. There are not true buyers agents here. But there are many wonderful real estate agents. I could care less about whether a agent claims he is a buyers agent or not as long as they are good. The best on island, if you are going by sales it's usually Chris Hanley, David Fedeles and Amy DeWilde. They've all been here a long time and are all very professional, but I could name at least ten other agents I like and respect as well. IMO it's easier to find a good one here then a bad one. It's hard to make it here as a agent so it weeds most of the bad to lukewarm ones out.

I don't pretend to understand real estate, but if you accept listings, and are paid a commission by the seller for selling their house, why would you say you are a buyers agent only??

How It works stateside is that the seller always pays the commission, but that commission is split between the listing agent and the buyers agent (a percentage the listing agent is willining to give the buyers agent for bringing the client). The buyers agent works soley for the buyer and acts as the middle man between the buyer and the listing agent. So when I asked for a good buyers agent, I was looking for somebody who could help us look/find propery and help represent us when we do purchase.

As a Buyer, if you don't think that your Realtor being a sub-agent of the Seller matters, then you haven't taken a close enough look at sub-agency relationships. It matters.

Real estate in the VI is a throwback to the 70's stateside. When Buyers understand agency, they will always choose to be the Client rather than the Customer.

Good morning good people!

More on the "buyer's agent" issue.... but not too much more. We've explained most of this on our website - www.alist.vi.

I know it's confusing - but our position is that the buyers here need representation - and that is the niche we are filling. We've thought a lot about this, have gotten good legal advice and counsel, and are doing things differently. We represent buyers - we are NOT sub-agents for the sellers. Other agents that we work with here understand that. And it does make a difference!

"Representation" and "who pays" are two different issues. If you get a divorce and have to pay your spouse's attorney fees - you are paying but the person you are paying is NOT representing you!!! Our sellers understand our position - and they are paying us for a marketing service, (and not a commission, by the way). They are happy to pay a commission to anyone that brings them what they want.....a BUYER!!! And the agents who bring a buyer to the sellers whose property we have listed are working as buyer agents (not sub-agents for the seller).

Again, if you'd like more info, feel free to contact me and/or check our our website for more info. Meantime, I'm gonna help Eric find a great home!

Just to clarify. Kim and I are not saying different things. The sub-agency relationship I described is what exists if you do not enter into a Buyer Agency Agreement. Buyer Agency St Croix is a different animal and represents the Buyer.

Frankly what everyone is describing is the seller pays the buyers agent, that is the bottom line. The seller always pays commission to both agents. This is how it always works. There is no difference IMO/

A good agent will always represent his client well, no matter if that client is the buyer or the seller. Sales is a referral business. If you're an ass or unprofessional to your client it will get around. Especially on this island! So go with the agent you feel most comfortable with. My preference has always been for the agents that have been here 10 to 20 years.

I don't see how an agent can represent the buyer when their payment is a commission based on a fixed percentage of the selling price. Under this scheme both agents are motivated to keep the sales price as high as possible.

A true buyers agent would have a contract with the buyer which motivated them to help the buyer get a selling price as low as possible. I would like to see my buyers agent strongly motivated to help me negotiate the price DOWN.

Dat's my job!!!! And because we don't get a commission on listings, we have no motivation to favor one property over another (i.e., no "double commissions"). We TRULY want to help our buyers find the right house for THEM. We have no motivation to favor one property over the other (which, to me, is a more serious "flaw" in the system than the commission issue).

I mean really, if we help save a client $20,000 on the price of their house - that's not much of an impact to us financially (about $600). On the other hand, agents who get a double commission (sell their own listing) see a SIGNIFICANT increase in their own pay (could be $20,000 - $30,000). Plus sometimes sellers offer bonuses as high as $20,000 to agents who sell their home - and we don't accept those. We are not perfect - and the system is certainly not perfect - but we are doing our best within what we have to work with.

And if a buyer feels there is some kind of a conflict with the seller paying the commission, they can pay it. It's really all the same - it comes out of the transaction and it's the buyer who brings the money to the table....

We feel that these issues are much more important than how long someone has been here, how many listings they have. You recall what happened with the owner of Remax in St Thomas, don't you? She had been in the VI a very long time......but if that IS important to you - Chuck has been here 10 years, me 5. And it really only takes about a year to learn the market here...if you are determined and sincere about doing a good job.

We are doing things differently and trying our best and really feel we are on the right track....

So if I've followed this correctly, to sum it up, there are 2 potential "conflicts" of interest here to look at when thinking of buyer brokers.

The first is that if your buyer's broker is also a "sellers" broker on properties he/she may be more likely to steer you towards those properties rather than other properties. This conflict may lead to a situation where you are not shown property that may be a perfect fit because of the agent's desire to sell you a property that they can get both the buyer's and seller's comission on.

The second conflict is that a buyers broker actually gets his/her money in the form of commission from the sale of the house. The higher the price of the house the more the buyers broker gets. This puts the buyer broker's interest in conflict with the buyer when it comes time to negotiate the purchase price of the house downward, or may lead to a buyer's broker not recommending cheaper houses to a buyer.

It sounds like Kim and Chuck both avoid conflict number 1 since they don't represent sellers at all.

I do agree with Kim that conflict number 1 does seem to be more serious than conflict number 2 due to amount of dollars at stake. In conflict number 1 the realtor has 3% of the full purchase price of the house at stake if they find a buyer for a property that they are representing as a seller. In conflict number 2 the realtor only has 3% of the difference in price which is a much lower amount.

That said, I've never relied on a buyers broker to help me figure out how much to offer because they are getting more paid based on the higher price of the house. I however have used buyers brokers and were satisfied with their services, keeping in mind that I have to ultimately be the one looking out for my interests at all times. Sales people can be very helpful but you have to make sure you are buying what you want at the price you are willing to pay...its no different here.

Sean

Agency can be confusing and is generally not well understood. Here are just a few good questions to ask: As a buyer, whose best interests does "your" Realtor represent? The seller's or the buyer's? It matters. Is "your" Realtor an agent or sub-agent for the Seller or are they an agent for the buyer? Are you a customer or a client? They are not interchangeable terms. Can "your" Realtor negotiate price on your behalf?

Googling the history of buyer agency is a great place to start.

All very interesting and a bit convoluted, if you ask me. The fact is...buyer beware, and it's up to you to decide to buy a particular property; it's up to you to decide how much you will pay; it's up to you have have an inspection, do your due diligence, have a survery, appraisal, etc., etc.

All agents have an obligation to be fair and honest with both the seller and the buyer, no matter what title you stick to their name, and no matter how you put the pen to paper and calculate who pays what, the buyer is the one who brings the money to the table.

There is a difference in disclosure repsonsibility between a seller's agent and a buyer's agent, but again, the burden is on the buyer, and if you have an agent you trust and have a good rapport with, then what's the big deal?

If you would like to buy an apartment building on St. Croix, please call Chris Hanley - 340-773-4665.;)

Kim Lucas,
It is alleged that the RE/Max Broker from St Thomas ran off with trust(deposit Monies). That situation has nothing to do with agency agreements. I Hope you understand that.

I always call Chris Hanley at 340-773-4665.

From what I'm reading is that people have an inflated perception of a buyer's agent. Like I said previously, back on the mainland (and probable in more other places) it is always the seller that pays the commission but the seller's agent splits that with the buyer's agent for bringing the client (this split is pre-determined on the listing information). If you don't like that agreement (which is the standard practice) then pay your [buyers] agent directly. That will just mean more money out of your [buyers] pocket.

A good buyers agent is one that you can establish a relationship with, that YOU trust, and is willing to work for YOU in the transaction. It has nothing to do with where the money for their fee ultimately comes from.

A buyer does not have an exclusivity agreement with an agent representing them, so if you don't like them find someone else.

So far, I've talked to Kim on the phone and see was very professional and is willing to have the patience to deal with us and our eventual purchase! 😉

Ericw,
You wrote, " A buyer does not have an exclusivity agreement with an agent representing them, so if you don't like them find someone else".

You better read and understand what type agency agreement with the Buyer Broker Representation you are about to sign. Like any contract seek legal help.:S