3rd world regions ~ Any comparison?

First, some clarification. During the Cold War, the United States and its allies were considered to be at one pole, and the USSR and its allies were considered to be at the other pole. Those nations that were allied with neither side were called "non-aligned," or "Third World." As many of these nations were in the "South," the term "Third World" came to mean something different. Development economists sometimes refer to these as "developing nations" or, according to World Bank and International Monetary Fund classifications, "Heavily Indebted Poor Countries (HIPC.)"

I lived in post-war Korea in the early 1960s and during the war in Vietnam in the late 1960s. I have lived in East Africa, traveling through the region some nine times since 1995, most recently this past January. I now live in post-Soviet space.

So how to compare and contrast the USVI to these nations? When I lived in Korea, the US was investing $2 billion a year in that nation. The results have been spectacular. Korea is a modern nation, one of the world's economic leaders. Over the past 50 years, the international community has invested over $50 billion in sub-Saharan Africa; I have noticed little change over the past 17 years. Here in the Caucasus, Georgia has made incredible progress over the past 10 years, especially since the Rose Revolution in 2003. So it depends. As Terry noted, the record is mixed. I've noticed improvements in St. Croix over the years, and prospects are rather bright, but there are problems. Hovensa's closing is both a problem in the short term and - perhaps- an opportunity in the longer term.

One difference, for sure, is that I have enjoyed driving and walking in C'sted a whole lot more than anywhere else in the world, First World, Second World, or Third World.

Longing to return,

Edward in Georgia - The Other Georgia!

Thanks for posting, Edward. Dr Bacot asked about you. Hope all is well.

So, why do you think South Korea thrived, and so many other nations don't?

Dr. Bacot is a superb orthopedic physician and surgeon. He completely relieved the excruciating pain in my knee and back. Absolutely wonderful! No recurrence of any problem with my knee or back. He is my hero!

Koreans are enormously diligent. The Republic of Korea (South) had the advantage of close relations with Western nations and a forward-looking (albeit authoritarian) leadership, especially Pak Chung Hee and a determined national economic policy. They were able to use the national character to the advantage of the Korean people. On the other hand, the Democratic People's Republic of Korea (North) was split off and took its direction from Stalin and Mao; the result was a hermit police state dictatorship that stifled innovation and executed dissenters and a population that is starving its children. My hope is that there will one day be a re-unification, as there was with East and West Germany.

Many other nations do not thrive for a variety of reasons. My own theory is that economic development depends on three imperatives: Education, Health Care, and Technology. Lacking any one of these will impede development. But all three must have a socio-political environment that will allow people to use their talents to increase their productivity. My doctoral dissertation dealt with increasing investment in women's higher education in sub-Saharan Africa; my conclusion was that such investments would return dividends in terms of accelerated economic development.

I'm scheduled to present a paper next summer in Seoul. I'll see once more the results of "The Korean Miracle." I'll be back in East Africa some time in the next two years, as well.

Thanks for your help!

Edward in Georgia

Great to hear from you Edward! When are coming back to STX?
If you ever get to AZ for a visit let us know.

You two crack me up. You are so young and naive. Lived in STX for 2 years. Beautiful beaches, etc.
But the cost of living will killl you. Couldn't afford to use the AC or flush the toilet everytime.
Crime is rampant....don't get hit by a stray bullet when you are out for dinner!

If you like to consume rum like water you will be fine!!!!!

I find it to be cheaper than from where I'm from (outside of Philly, towards NYC) for just about everything, except electric and the crime to be much less random than in the states, making it feel safer than the cities.

Island life is NOT for everyone!
How many times and how many ways can that be said.
If you don't like it and you are not invested in living here then........don't!
No-one will blame you. You had an experience and for whatever reson, things did not work out and you decide to move on.
Happens to all of us at some point or other, at some time in our lives otherwise we would not have this forum.

I, for one, know that a city lifestyle is absolutely not for me at this time in my life.
Never has been but, who knows what will happen in the futre to dictate a change.

If money was not an issue would you still have left the Island Susan??

This thread cracked me up. I have traveled to over 70 countries and more then half of them were 3rd world. Though, as Edward mentioned the origin, it is a dated word and the more politically correct term is developing countries.

Anyway, in Malawi I lived in a hut about 6' by 8', paid 5 USD a month rent (I was probably overcharged), bathed in the lake and went to the bathroom in the "out house" (which is being very polite by calling it that). Now that is 3rd world.

I have many more stories. But no the USVI does not resemble a developing country. I don't live there (yet) but I have visited briefly and no certainly not.

I lived in Appalachian mountains for 6 years. Entire communties with no running water. Families living in one room tar paper shacks. Outhouses for bathrooms. These communties still exist in the US. Born lazy and raised up tired my mother used to call those places. All the Dads used to make moonshine. Now it's meth. I haven't seen that level of poverty here in the VI. Some places are pretty rough here but nothing like I saw growing up. My brother is a missionary and he goes to central America quite often and even he agrees that nothing he has seen rivals the Appalachian counties we lived in.

I'm trying to figure you out, Susan. Why are you so bitter? Is it some sense of heroic sacrifice which makes you come to these boards and warn people off? Always with the negative waves, Moriarty! 😛

We get it. You didn't like your time on STX. I must point out, however, that it appears that it wasn't so much the island but your expectations which were out of whack. If you expect low cost of living, you'll be disappointed. If you don't know about the crime, it'll come as a shock. But if your expectations were correctly aligned with the islands' reality you probably wouldn't be so disillusioned now. I certainly wish you wouldn't use terms like "naive", when the reality appears to be - in this thread at least - that you were naive when you lived on island. You apparently miss the things AandA has actually written, or disbelieve them; the former is unfortunate, the latter petulant.

Anyway, your reality is different than what others are reporting. And I simply just don't get why you're still here; if your STX experience was so awful, one wonders why you don't completely expunge it from your life...

Cheers!

Bob

I'm trying to figure you out, Susan. Why are you so bitter? Is it some sense of heroic sacrifice which makes you come to these boards and warn people off? Always with the negative waves, Moriarty! 😛

I'm baffled too. As I asked in a previous post on another thread (and to which she never responded), why did her posts up until just a few months months ago extoll the delights of living on STX and then so drastically change as soon as she decided to move? First she said she was planning on leaving even before Hovensa closed because she missed her family; then the closing of Hovensa clinched the deal and, now she's back on the mainland, she spits anti-STX venom in almost every post. Everybody's entitled to their opinion but it's the complete turnaround which confuses me in this case. :S

Now this is Third World!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-19376491

Now this is Third World!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-19376491

Not sure how this fits in under the general umbrella of "Third World".

The worst "Third World" example I've seen in this general region was the Dominican Republic. I was there several years ago with a friend who owned a simple condo in Sosua.

Outside the tourist enclaves with their security guards and the walled compounds which boast upmarket stores, medical clinics, spas and lush green grass on immaculate golf courses, a whole new world surrounds you with a sickening disparity between the "haves" and the "have-nots". As if driving/walking around Puerto Plata right outside the cruise ship port wasn't bad enough (three-legged mangey dogs scrounging for food, broken-down ramshackle buildings, garbage everywhere and obvious poverty) a visit to "the interior" was infinitely worse.

We met, quite by chance, a Canadian couple who had lived there for several years and were in the process of setting up a children's school. A prerequisite for children to attend schools is to wear a school uniform. When they took us into the bush to show us how much of the population lives, the school uniform mandate became obvious as totally ridiculous and ineffectual. A "home" up there in the bush comprises a tin or wooden roof propped up on four uprights. A "wall" of any kind is a luxury. Floors? Dirt, of course. Naked, dirty but obviously happy children running around and chicken and goats wandering around outside and inside the "home". Cooking? A tripod set-up, a hanging pot with a wood fire burning underneath it.

The couple told us that the government-issued literacy rate was documented as "90%". A very cheerful high percentage except when basic literacy is counted as being able to put a big "X" for your name.

My stay there was a very sobering experience and whenever I read of someone extolling their wonderful vacation in the DR as being "just the best in the world", I really have nothing to say. Tourists are taken out of the compounds and hotels and off the cruise ships by chaperoned bus tours to the sights and the beaches without ever seeing the other side of the coin.

I likewise laugh when a few visitors here see broken down buildings in and around town (Charlotte Amalie/Christiansted/Frederiksted) and afterwards write of their visit decrying the "poverty" they think they saw while driving around, declaring that the USVI is so sadly "Third World" and "someone should do something about it". Not by any stretch of the imagination is the USVI "Third World".

compared to 3rd world
USVI better public eduation
USVI much higher standard of living
USVI much higher percapita income
USVI better access to more modern health care
USVI lower infant mortality

USVI about equal in violent crime

Political corruption is up for debate

USVI is more like downtrodden inner city (with great beaches) and dangerous gun violence.

I agree the USVI is not third world. I think this idea came from the third world comparable crime rate.

St. Croix is not perfect by any means, but it is NOT the 3rd world! Our sweet little island is more akin to a poor rural area somewhere in the American South or the Southwest. I have been to several 3rd world countries, and I have to say I feel our island is much more like the mainland USA.

I always thought it was Appalachia - poor, very insular and suspicious of strangers. But the beaches on STX are a lot better!

Maybe that's why I like it here so much, I have family from Appalacia and use to race trucks all over up there. I know hillbilly. haha

Now this is Third World!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-19376491

Except I don't know any 3rd world countries where guns are common. There may be a couple but most countries do not allow regular citizens to own guns like we do in the states.

The only violence I encountered in a 3rd World country was in Cuba. I was mugged by 2 different groups of people. The first guy I ran after and got my purse back and then when I was on the ground 2 other guys from a different group tried to get my bag and my leg ended up going through a store front window. That had no guns or even knives. I ended up in a Cuban hospital for more than one week with scars up and down my right leg and a severed tendon. I had to have surgery on my achilles tendon.

The whole thing was weird and started when the cab drove me to the "wrong" part of Havana.

I know Cuba is not the best example for a 3 world country because it is communist and they really are not allowed anything so of course they would not have access to guns. But really a shooting has nothing to do with 3rd word countries because there are no guns in 3rd world countries.

But really a shooting has nothing to do with 3rd word countries because there are no guns in 3rd world countries.

That's the furthest thing from the truth. Just to give one example (and there are thousands from all over the world), the U.N. reported that, "In fact, small arms, which include rifles, pistols and light machine guns, are filling African graves in ever-increasing numbers".

That's the furthest thing from the truth. Just to give one example (and there are thousands from all over the world), the U.N. reported that, "In fact, small arms, which include rifles, pistols and light machine guns, are filling African graves in ever-increasing numbers".

I am not talking about countries in unrest or dealing with genocide.

I am not talking about countries in unrest or dealing with genocide.

:S Oh.

I wonder where Castro got his guns from.

the reds

No, originally Castro had US support in his fight to overthrow Baptista (sp?). It was only afterwards that he became our enemy. The exact same thing happened with Sadam Hussein - we supported him in his fight with Iran. We are not very good at choosing our allies!